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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Frontier Iron (Moderator: St. George)  |  Topic: Got VERY lucky on an auction the other day 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Got VERY lucky on an auction the other day  (Read 4323 times)
The Pathfinder
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« on: April 06, 2017, 08:35:57 am »


 Grin  Grin  Grin

Got VERY lucky a couple of days ago and can't wait for this one to arrive. I've been trying to find an 'affordable' S&W American for some time now (about twenty five years or so), and I was prepared to go higher for this when amazingly nobody else bid. All I can say is... THANKS. Should go well with my cut down first model Schofield. 

 Grin  Grin  Grin

http://www.antiqueguns.com/index.php/view-auctions/categories/buffalo-hunter-indian-war-old-west/1865-1898-hog-legs-and-holsters-guns/page-100

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Mean Bob Mean
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2017, 08:53:11 am »

I hate you.
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"We tried a desperate game and lost. But we are rough men used to rough ways, and we will abide by the consequences."
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The Pathfinder
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2017, 09:10:13 am »

Bob, I know what you mean. I've seen a lot of auctions go by that I would look back at and say 'Why didn't I bid, I'd have gone higher than that.' I bid on this fully expecting to be outbid, but had to try. Apparently I must have done something very good lately, cause He was watching out for me on this one.  Wink

Heck, I was so happy to get it, I never noticed it doesn't say anywhere what caliber it is. I'm assuming it's in 44 SWA, but it could be a 44 Henry or if I'm REALLY, REALLY lucky in 44 SWR. Heck, I was still on such a high from winning that I even forgot to ask when I paid for it. Doesn't matter what it is, I can find a way around my reloading bench to get her to roar once more. Grin
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Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2017, 10:38:11 am »

WOW!  Congratulations!  Of course we'll need updates when you get it...

CC Griff
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 10:42:42 am »

Way to go!
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Mean Bob Mean
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2017, 11:59:57 am »

Bob, I know what you mean. I've seen a lot of auctions go by that I would look back at and say 'Why didn't I bid, I'd have gone higher than that.' I bid on this fully expecting to be outbid, but had to try. Apparently I must have done something very good lately, cause He was watching out for me on this one.  Wink

Heck, I was so happy to get it, I never noticed it doesn't say anywhere what caliber it is. I'm assuming it's in 44 SWA, but it could be a 44 Henry or if I'm REALLY, REALLY lucky in 44 SWR. Heck, I was still on such a high from winning that I even forgot to ask when I paid for it. Doesn't matter what it is, I can find a way around my reloading bench to get her to roar once more. Grin

Seriously, nicely done mate.
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"We tried a desperate game and lost. But we are rough men used to rough ways, and we will abide by the consequences."
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The Pathfinder
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2017, 12:07:19 pm »

Thanks, guys. Soon as I get it, I'll figure out the caliber and post a couple of pics alongside my Schofield.
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Forty Rod
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2017, 12:36:50 am »

The American and First Model Russian, both with 8" barrels, are the most elegant-looking revolvers ever made. (Just my own opinion..... which BTW is never wrong.   Wink  Cheesy)
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People like me are the reason people like you have the right to bitch about people like me.
The Pathfinder
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2017, 09:07:15 am »

 Grin

Forty Rod, I agree whole heartedly, but considering what's due to arrive in the mail tomorrow, I ask to be forgiven if I start thinking that a 6" cut down doesn't look too bad. Grin
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2017, 10:35:30 am »

Ha!!!  Form one who never met a barrel too sort, those 8 inch S&Ws have 5 inches too much barrel.   Shocked Grin

Coffinmaker
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Ben Beam
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2017, 11:17:13 am »

I love the name embossed into the grip. Looks like it says J HENRY JAN 1888 but a bit hard to make out. Maybe a gift?
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The Pathfinder
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2017, 11:55:15 am »

Hmmm. you mean I could have just bought John Henry's (that steel driving man) own S&W? Sweeeet! Grin

My son and I already have plans to try to decipher the carving on the grips, but that was as close as we could tell from the pictures as well.
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Jake MacReedy
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2017, 03:42:25 pm »

Pathfinder, take a look at the cylinder.  If the chambers are bored straight through, it's a .44 American centerfire.  If there is a step in the chamber, it's a.44 Russian.  The rimfires had a cut-out slot in the frame to allow the wide firing pin attached to the hammer to strike the rim of the .44 Henry Flat cartridges.

Regards,
Ron
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The Pathfinder
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2017, 05:30:59 pm »

Jake, been trying to figure this one out and I plan on taking it to the OGCA show this weekend to ask a couple of guys I've met there if they can. The cylinder appears to be bored straight thru, yet a 44 American cartridge is not 'snug' in the chamber. The 44 Russian fits the chamber like a glove, as does 44 Henry. The serial number on the cylinder is different from the rest of the revolver. Best I can see its a 44 Henry cylinder in an otherwise American? Sadly, the best fitting cartridge I have has no headstamp, but appears to be very close to the 44 Henry, except it's centerfire. Has an outside lube bullet and the case is longer than the American and the Russian, but shorter than the 44 Colt. God, I love a mystery! Grin
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Jake MacReedy
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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2017, 08:30:48 am »

Pathfinder, that is a mystery!  If you want to make the investment, I highly recommend this book:
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/270/2/BOOK-SWSOW

It's the authoritative source on Americans & Russians when it comes to S&W!  It's well worth the investment to get!

Regards,
Jake
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2017, 11:28:34 am »

Naw.  You don't even have to go through all that time consuming and boring research stuff.  Simply ship it to me.  After I Play (I mean test) with it for a couple of years, I ship it back with a complete report  Roll Eyes.  Satisfaction guaranteed   Grin

Coffinmaker
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The Pathfinder
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« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2017, 12:17:52 pm »

Jake, thanks for the tip. I've got Pate's book on the American, but must have missed this entirely as I didn't have any Real Smiths back when it came out. Just ordered it and can't wait for it to get here. Thanks again, Pathfinder
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rbertalotto
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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2017, 06:46:38 pm »

I picked up a version of the model 3 in 38-44 caliber. Great fun researching it and making cartridges to shoot. Wrote an article about it in "Single Shot Exchange" and it is on my web site   Www.rvbprecision.com
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Roy B
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« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2017, 07:10:28 pm »

So, sold your soul recently?
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Tuolumne Lawman
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« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2017, 08:51:43 pm »

It sounds like you actually have a First Model Russian, not an American.  First Model Russians looked almost exactly like the earlier American Model.  If it is a First Model Russian, you REALLY scored...

Try slugging your bore.  if it is close to .429/.430, it is a .44 Russian.  If it is .434/.435" it is an American.    A .44 Russian should not fit in a .44 American cylinder.  A .44 American has a .440" case diameter, while a .44 Russian is .457". Tomorrow I will compare a .44 American round with a .44 Russian.
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TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
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The Pathfinder
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« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2017, 03:30:17 pm »

 Huh  Ok, I'm back. Miced the cylinder and the bore. Cylinder is bored straight thru and measures around .459, although the chambers seem to have 5 "rings" in each of them so I'm suspecting 'Bubba Rebore'? On the other hand, the bore mikes in around .429 or so. The assembly number on the barrel and cylinder match (1359). The assembly number on the frame is H106, serial number 152XX. Barrel markings are deep and clear and are perfect for a second model American or a commercial Russian second model early? There is not and never has been the words 'RUSSIAN MODEL' on the barrel.
So I'm back to being confused, for all practical purposes the gun appears to be a 2nd model American, except for the bore size. And the fact that modern 44 Colt with a 42798 bullet and black powder may work better in it than any other cartridge. My Black Dawg 44 Colt with 205 gr bullet fits in the cylinder perfectly. Don't know as I've got the cohonies to try those tho'. No, definitely not, didn't get to be 60 years old by being foolish. Well no more so than most anyway. 
I'll sit down tomorrow and see if I can figure out this new borescope camera I got and see if I can post pictures of the chambers.
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Tuolumne Lawman
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« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2017, 06:26:45 pm »

I really feel it is a first model Russian, which looks exactly like an American Model, rather than the more familiar 2nd and 3rd Model Russians with the smaller grip, bumped backstrap, and finger spur.  Your cylinder and bore specs are dead on for a First Model Russian.  The .429 bore is right for a Russian, as is the .459 cylinder is perfect for the Russian round also, as the case is .457 on the Russian round.  I would not try anything other than a BP Russian round with about 19 grain s FFFG under a 245 grain .429/.430 bullet.
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TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
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The Pathfinder
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« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2017, 09:04:14 am »

TL, other than the cylinder being bored straight thru, I agree with you. If the assy nos didn't match on the cylinder and barrel I'd think someone just dropped in the wrong cylinder. Still trying to figure out this borescope camera thingie, soon as I do i'll get some pics up. Once you see the cylinder to barrel alignment you'll see what's got me hesitant to fire it at the moment. May need to adjust the forcing cone slightly.

Oh, and congrats on your Russian, what model is it, 1st, 2nd or 3rd?
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Tuolumne Lawman
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« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2017, 05:01:29 pm »

Mine is a second model Russian, with the small American style cylinder retaining screw, not the large one of the Third Model.  My cylinder BARELY has a shoulder for case mouths.  It looks more like a dark ring than a shoulder. 
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TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2017, 09:42:35 am »

Finally figured out the borescope camera, getting too old for fancy electronic thingies. Here are a couple of pics taken down one of the chambers in the cylinder and of the rings I mentioned in the chambers.


* Bore alignment Russian.jpg (49.25 KB, 640x480 - viewed 34 times.)

* Chamber rings Russian.jpg (49.49 KB, 640x480 - viewed 26 times.)
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