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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Colt SAA Clones (Moderators: RRio, Gen Lew Wallace, Hoof Hearted)  |  Topic: Dry firing an Uberti Cattleman 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Dry firing an Uberti Cattleman  (Read 1916 times)
Ben Beam
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« on: April 02, 2017, 09:04:10 pm »


I tried a search but came up with wildly conflicting opinions.  Some said it isn't safe to dry fire an SAA clone without a snap cap, others claimed that their gunsmith told them that snap caps could cause damage for some unexplained reason. I'm not opposed to using snap caps, but I'd like to feel a bit more informed. Looking forward to the always informative discussion. Smiley
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Professor Marvel
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2017, 01:43:40 am »

Greetings OSB-

As long as the snap cap is not worn out, I see no problem. I would make certain on older style guns with the FP mounted on the hammer that there is no contact betwixt the FP and the hole in the frame...

Additionally, if one is cheap frugal like myself, one can always stuff a rubber pencil eraser in the primer pocket of several empty shells, and replace the rubber as reqd.

hope this helps
prf marvel
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2017, 10:20:12 am »

Thanks, Prof. that's the way I'm leaning, but when I did a google search on CASCity I found a handful of posts saying not to use them. However on a second look, I see that all those posts were from the same user, so l guess they just got some bad advice.

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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2017, 11:21:37 am »

Oh Lordy but I like this "subject."  I most always start a fight  Roll Eyes   From the standpoint of a practicing Gunplumber (Retired), a standard Single Action with a hammer mounted firing pin should NEVER be dry fired without Snap Caps.  There will be several results when snap caps are NOT used.

First thing that happens, is the firing pin strikes the back of the hole in the recoil shield.  This raises a burr on the face of recoil shield which causes the cartridges to hang up on the burr making the cylinder rotation rough or even jam.  The rough cylinder rotation also causes undue wear on the hand, eventually affecting timing.  Then, to correct that burr, you remove it with a stone or small file which leaves and enlarged hole in the recoil shield and on firing, the primer flows back into the oversized hole, which causes rough cylinder rotation or more often, an outright jam.  This also results in undue wear on the hand.  Correcting this problem requires a trip to a skilled gunsmith to have a hardened bushing installed in the face of the recoil shield.  That procedure ain't cheap.

Dry firing with the hardened bushing causes excessive wear on the firing pin and cross pin that holds it in place.  Often breaking the cross pin.  This requires replacing the firing pin and the cross pin.  If at the same time the hole for the cross pin has been elongated where the in no longer fits, the hammer and firing pin have to be drilled out and a larger cross pin found.  That ain't cheap either.

Dry firing guns with a transfer bar results in broken transfer bars.  New transfer bars are fairly cheap.  They are a hassle to replace.  Additionally, if we are talking about Open Tops, bent firing pins will result even with snap caps.  Again, new firing pins.

Bottom Line:  If one is bound and determined to dry fire ..... Dry Fire only with good quality snap caps.  Even that may eventually damage the Firing Pin.  My council has always been ....... Don't Dry Fire single action hand guns.  It ain't good for em.  There are those who will claim they have been dry firing for years with no damage (BS).  IF your aim is to play CAS and become a top 10% shooter, your going to dry fire.  If that is the case, buy a separate set of guns specifically for dry fire practice.  Never dry fire your match guns.  When they break, Murphy says it will happen in the middle of a three day match you've paid lots of folding money to attend.

Navy 45 ....... We're a Lighthouse ...... Your Call

Coffinmaker
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Professor Marvel
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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2017, 01:25:09 pm »

Greetings My Good CM !

"Hello The Lighthouse, Hello The Lighthouse.
Begin Message:

 Rule 34 is followed; repeat, Rule 34 is followed
 We will give way; repeat, we will give way.
 We are  turning to starboard to pass you ; We are turning to starboard to pass you
 We are sounding our horn 1 short blast; We are sounding our horn 1 short blast

 We *are* using snapcaps. repeat, we *are* using snapcaps.

End Message.
 

yhs
prof ( not navy but stayed in a holiday inn) marvel
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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2017, 01:59:47 pm »

Well, I just finished my daily dry firing/thumb slipping/fanning regiment. I read this, only to find out I've been "BS"ing everybody.

The truth is, I do it every day as a test of my own set up in my El Patron (more for the action than the topic here). I do use snap caps (to protect/retain pin fitment) and have been doing it for 2 +yrs. I have corrected the slight burr that CM mentions one time (about a year into this practice) and it hasn't changed. It's still "as fixed".  Since the firing pin has " clearanced " the frame opening, there is no reason for any further interaction between the two. I suspect it will stay as is.
    
   I think most folks will have a problem with a reoccurring burrr on the breech face because of an ill fitted or an out of spec. firing pin. Also, the use of the snap cap will save that tollerance (of the firing pin) from changing since it has a stopping surface.

So, if you have a problem with the firing pin raising a Burr on the breech face, go ahead a replace the firing pin and actually "fit it" so that it wont continue.

To answer the O.P.s original question, use a snap cap device if you are going to dry fire. If wear patterns happen,  correct them before an expensive "fix" occurs.

By the way, the action parts are still the original parts in the El Patron. The springs have been changed to coils. The handspring is of my own design and uses a much longer plunger (slightly larger in diameter as well) with a shorter/stouter spring. My setup mimics the dual function of the hand (as a Colt design) and doesn't promote throw-by like a Ruger. The bolt spring is a torsion spring like a 3 screw Ruger  and the trigger return is a spring and plunger setup housed in the trigger guard, again, just like a 3 screw Ruger.  An El Patron that just won't break!!   And that's no B.S.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
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griffith
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 06:57:39 am »

     Coffinmaker,

                   You have me curious. How does dry firing with snap caps cause the firing pin to bend on open tops? I'm asking because I just bought an open top and a set of snap caps.

       Griffith
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2017, 10:12:44 am »

Griffith,

The Open Tops I have (2 pair, one pair super modified) came from Uberti with a really LONG and Skinny and SOFT firing pin.  Those firing pins often bent when using Snap Caps with real stiff springs.  I have to be fair though, on second thought.  Those firing pins were also prone to bending when firing live ammo as well.

It is my understanding, over the last several years, Uberti has begun to deliver guns with an improved firing pin that is not prone to bending.  At one time I thought the firing pin could be bent just by looking at it real hard.  They were that soft.  Since I retired almost 6 years ago, I haven't had the opportunity to work on the "new build" guns.  Currently, the majority of Open Tops out there are the guns with soft firing pins.  I would not want to make a recommendation that does not pertain to those older built guns.

Coffinmaker

PS:  Be sure to take yourself over to the Open Range and peruse Pettifoggers Open Top tuning information.  Particularly the points he makes about the Barrel to Arbor fit.    Shocked
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griffith
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2017, 11:29:54 am »

     Thanks for the information. I've already put a 5mm split washer in the arbor hole. The barrel slides on and off, but without any play. I was lucky, no burrs to remove.

                   Griffith
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Colt SAA Clones (Moderators: RRio, Gen Lew Wallace, Hoof Hearted)  |  Topic: Dry firing an Uberti Cattleman « previous next »
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