Noob questions

[LonesomePigeon]

 I recently got my first SAA replica and want to try reloading with real black powder. I had not yet decided what kind of press to get when the other day I found an old Lee Loader kit in .45 caliber for $15 at a local gun shop. For only $15 I went ahead and got it. I also happen to already have the following supplies, some of which I originally bought for my cap n' ball revolvers:

Once fired brass cases from Winchester SuperX .45 Colt 250 grain Cowboy Action Lead Flat Nose.

Cast Big Lube bullets, I think they are the EPP-UG .45 caliber 150 grain. I originally bought them for my cap n' ball .44 caliber revolvers and never used them. I think they are pure lead.

Goex 3F and Swiss 1.5F black powder.

Homemade beeswax/lamb tallow lube.

A few commercially made .44 caliber wads, not sure if they are pre-lubed or unlubed.

Cream of Wheat for filler, if needed.

Then I bought some CCI Large Pistol Primers, according to the instructions on the Lee Loader.

So do I have everything I need to make some .45 caliber ammo? I guess my my questions are, are the 150 grain EPP-UG bullets ok to use with the Winchester cases? Should I use a full case of bp or should I use filler and/or wads? How deep do I seat the bullet, should the lube groove be inside the case or exposed? And if the bullets I have are pure lead are they too soft or going to deform too much when I seat them?

[Coffinmaker]

Actually ...... YES!!  You have everything you need.  You will want to fill the lube groove on your EPP UG - 45 bullets with your home made lube.  Seat the bullets so you crimp at that little front driving band.  Crimp right over the front of the driving band.  Your load will be enough powder you get just a smidgin of compression when you seat the bullet.  Or ......  Start with about 20 - 25 grains BP and fill with the Cream of Wheat (smells like breakfast when you shoot) so you still get some compression.  With your lube in the lube groove you will have no use for the 44 wads.  Too small anyway.  Your gonna have FUN!!!

Coffinmaker

[Cliff Fendley]

While they are lighter than what I would prefer those bullets will work. The diameter isn't too small unless they've been sized down.

I have used 452 and 454 bullets in mine. I generally use the 45 JP big lube bullets which are around 200 grain. The PRS250's work real well too.

The 3f powder will make for some fairly hot loads, pushing that little bullet pretty fast. You might want to use the filler. Try about 25 grains of powder with the cream of wheat.

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[August]

You'll also need some proper safety glasses.

I used a Lee Loader kit when I was a kid.  Made lots of ammo with it.  Had time but no money.  I set off more than a few primers while using it.  Keep your powder away from the location where you're hammering on the tool.  Always remember that black powder is very easy to ignite.

[LonesomePigeon]

Major 2, when I said the bullets were originally for a .44 caliber I meant a .44 caliber cap n' ball revolver which, I'm sure you know, means they should actually measure between .451 and .457 in diameter. I measured them at about .457 and they do need to be sized down a bit to fit in the Winchester cases.

Thanks all! I will be sure to wear safety glasses and be well away from any powder while seating the primers.

[Cliff Fendley]

I have experienced some good accuracy with the 200 grain big lube JP bullet in schofield cases with 28 grains of Schutzen.

[Major 2]

sufficient minute of CAS steel plate @ 10 yards with KIK & 200 Grainers in my ex- Remy revolver.

Haven't used it in my Henry's cause the bullets I have ( Missouri Bullet Co. ) don't carry enough lube...

But my C&B like it 

I had acquired two LBS of KIK in a group buy.... way cleaner than the Elephant I had ( still have 1/2  lbs )

[LonesomePigeon]

Update: I made just 10 rounds today. 5 with 35 grains Goex 3F and 5 with 25 grains Goex + 10 grains Cream of Wheat. I pan lubed the bullets with homemade lube approximately 40% beeswax 60% lamb tallow.

I did have an issue when seating the bullets in the cases with the Lee Loader and some of the bullets backing out of the cases and needing to reseat them. I shot  just a few of these rounds today. I was worried about those reseated bullets possibly backing out under recoil. I don't know if this was a legitimate fear?

Since I was worried about the bullets backing out of their cases under recoil I decided to load and shoot only one bullet at a time. I must say it was a lot of fun shooting black powder rounds. Plus I was with a friend and we were on his private property, shooting cans with a hillside backstop. It was just a whole 'nuther level of fun compared to shooting smokeless rounds at paper targets, at the range.

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings My Good LP

A light to medium crimp is your friend :-)
good job on your reloading efforts, I see you are having great fun!

yhs
prf mvl

[LonesomePigeon]

Thanks Professor. Yes I am having fun! Shooting out in the country, green knee high grass, rolling hills and oak trees felt more like the Old West than the range, even though we have a very nice range here. We set up an old coffee can with a tall boy can on top up against the hillside and my first black powder shot made that tall boy jump about 3 feet in the air.

I did get a chance also to put some of my rounds on paper and they hit way low. I will try a heavier bullet next time. I also did load two of my rounds and after firing the first one I checked the remaining round. Indeed the bullet had backed out of the case some. I definately need to crimp. As best I can tell the .45COLT Lee Loader does not have a crimp feature. This is the kit I am talking about:  http://leeprecision.com/lee-loader-45-colt.html Is there a way I can crimp cases and still use that kit, or do have to upgrade to a press and get a regular crimping die?

[wildman1]

The seater die should also be the crimp die IF adjusted properly. The instructions that came with the die will tell you how to do it.
wM1

[Professor Marvel]

I do agree, an afternoon shooting out in the hills is more delightful than the range. And less crowded!

re crimp: Like wildman said.

It has been a bit of a while so I ducked over to the Lee website and reviewed their instructions,
where They address crimping

http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/RE1423.pdf

"Crimping Bullets
Revolver cartridges require a crimp to keep the
bullet from pulling out due to recoil. Crimp also
is important to create sufficient pressure before
the bullet starts to leave the case so as to properly
ignite the powder. This tool has a crimping
shoulder on the opposite end of the sizing die
that easily forms a neat crimp. See Step #9.

hth
prof marvel

[LonesomePigeon]

Thank you. Indeed there is a way to crimp. I just glanced at the instructions and then went to a youtube video instead. The video didn't show any crimping, I guess I should have read the instructions more thoroughly!

[Professor Marvel]

As the male of the species, it is our sworn duty to ignore instructions until ....
well
...
um...

 

yhs
prf mumbles