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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1873 (Moderator: Major 2)  |  Topic: Advice sought on a new '73 Winchester in 38 WCF or 44 WCF 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Advice sought on a new '73 Winchester in 38 WCF or 44 WCF  (Read 1537 times)
mrappe
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« on: March 26, 2017, 03:24:18 pm »


I have been shooting my 38/40 1873 Winchester (1886 mfg. 24" octagon sporting rifle) for 21 years now in CAS events. I would like to get a reproduction rifle because the original is getting tired and I would like to keep it as original as possible. Also, I will probably look for a shorter/lighter version of the 73 since the 24" is heavy and my wife may take up shooting with me after many years of watching. I was thinking of another 38/40 since I already have about 500 rnds loaded and maybe 800 cast bullets. I may consider a 44/40 since I am only interested in original calibers and have the dies and some bullets for that caliber since I used to have a Colt Frontier Six in 44/40. I have a 92 inf 32/20 that my son used to shoot but I don't want that caliber for CAS. I would like opinions as to which manufacture or vendor may be better and also has these calibers and if they run true to size etc.

Thanks,
Mike
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Mean Bob Mean
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 12:52:05 pm »

My advice is buy a Winchester short rifle in .44-40.  With the round barrel at 20 inches they are light and handy.  While they are pricier than the stock Ubertis, they are better built and cleaner on the interior.  My gunsmith says they look as if they are already tuned.  If you buy an Uberti, expect to dump between 125.00 and 200.00 in the gun to make it reliable and smooth--and I have spoken with guys and smiths who have seen several hundred spent in an effort to get and keep one running.  The price point is starting to come down, too many 1873 rifles out there, the market is facing a glut.  I have seen the grade II/III wood short rifles go for as low as just under 1100.00, that is with the case hardened receiver.  Buy an Uberti for 1000.00 and dump the extra into it or buy the already short stroked and cleaned up Winchester?  To me it's a no brainer if a fella wants a .44-40.  
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2017, 02:07:51 pm »

I don't mean to be argumentative here (oh yes I do  Shocked).  The Miroku built '73 is NOT Short Stroked.  The lever travel is somewhat less than an out of the box Uberti, but by no means is it "Short Stroked."  The Miroku does have slightly better machine work but is also somewhat more difficult to set up than a Uberti.  Should you have a problem with the Miroku, there are almost NO parts available. 

There is a plethora of parts available for the Uberti.  OEM replacement/repair parts as well as performance parts.  A simple matter to purchase lighter, user friendly after-market springs.  Appearance wise, that is subjective.  The different importers have different requirements for roll marks.  Cimarron perhaps the more authentic.

As far as the calibers running true to size ...... true to size "when??"  Some years back the manufactures of .44s standardized on .429 for barrel dimension.  For the 38-40, I'm not sure.  However there is a specifications page on the Cimarron web site that gives the base dimensions of the guns they sell.  You should give that a look-see.

You can't go far wrong with either.  However, from the standpoint of a professional Gunpluber, parts availability alone would guide me to Uberti built rifles.  Barrel length is subjective.  I personally prefer short barrels.  18 inches is nice.

Ah Navy 45, we're a Light House ..... Your Call

Coffinmaker 
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Mean Bob Mean
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 02:40:57 pm »

I don't mean to be argumentative here (oh yes I do  Shocked).  The Miroku built '73 is NOT Short Stroked.  The lever travel is somewhat less than an out of the box Uberti, but by no means is it "Short Stroked."  Coffinmaker  

This is technically true, however relatively meaningless to me for the following reason, the ones I have seen tend toward having less travel than original 1873s, which tend toward having less travel than Ubertis.  I have not short stroked my rifle because they did not have short stroked rifles back in the day and consequently, short stroking is bullshit. Thusly, to me that's a short stroke on a leverhammergun.

Also, it is a great thing there are so many Uberti doo dads available:  you will need them.  I expect that the shortage of Miroku/Winchester parts will subside in the future. 

No offense to any gamer of any kind or variety is implied or intended. 
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2017, 08:11:30 pm »

Self-Righteous Git ain't Ya  Grin

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mrappe
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2017, 08:29:40 pm »

I know that both Taylor's and Cimarron are Ubertis. I called both (Taylor's and Texas Jacks) of them today and it appears that getting any caliber besides 38/357 or .45 Colt difficult if you don't want to wait for some long and unspecified amount of time. They had a few models in stock but not the ones that I really wanted in 38/40 so I am not sure what I will go with. I saw one of the Winchesters/Mirouku this weekend at a shoot that was in 357 but I did not like the new safety firing pin thing so I probably not get one even if they had one in 38/40. I have taken a course on the 66/73 type guns and have kept my old one going for 21 years so I think I can smooth out a Uberti unless it really has a major problem.
 
Thanks,
Mike
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 07:46:29 am »

Generally in my experience a 44-40 is not difficult to acquire. You might have to order and wait on a 38-40.
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 10:33:04 am »

MRAP (couldn't resist)

Should you decide/elect/find a Miroku '73 in 38-40, there is an after-market Firing Pin Extension rod available that eliminates all that wonky stuff in the extension rod.  The only other difficulty you may encounter with the Miroku is altering the trigger block safety spring to make the trigger block more user friendly.

Coffinmaker
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Abilene
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 01:48:38 pm »

I think you are going to be waiting a loooong time before Miroku puts out a 38-40 '73.

Texas Jacks is owned by Cimarron but only has a sampling of what Cimarron carries in stock.  The last Cimarron inventory list I saw was a couple of weeks ago, but at that time there was one 20" straight stock and one 19" saddle ring carbine in stock in 38-40.

Taylors does list the 38-40 on their website so may have some.

I don't know how the Uberti 38-40 chambers run, but it is possible you may need to set the shoulder a bit further back when sizing the 38-40 to fit the Uberti chamber, as compared to the original Winchester (they would still fire fine in the Winnie).
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Mean Bob Mean
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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2017, 07:42:22 am »

Self-Righteous Git ain't Ya  Grin

Coffinmaker

Aye!  Thanks pard.
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Mean Bob Mean
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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2017, 07:45:57 am »

I think you are going to be waiting a loooong time before Miroku puts out a 38-40 '73.

I would agree which makes the Cimarron/Taylor's route seem to be the only choice for a .38-40.  Of course, if you'd told me that Mirokuchester would ever offer the 1866 or 1873 again a few years back I'd have said no so . . .

Of course, you could cast around and see could you refit another original . . .

I think I might ask them that question.
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Mean Bob Mean
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2017, 12:06:58 pm »

Spoke with Winchester customer service rep, he said he has not heard of any intention to bring out a .38-40 version.  Doesn't mean it won't happen sometime, but.
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2017, 09:18:55 am »

I'm with Mean Bob.  Waiting for a 38-40 from Miroku/Winchester .... Meh.  Don't hold yer breath.  Won't look good in "dead blue."  Best bet is something from Uberti and it may well be taking what you can get rather than "exactly" what you want.  Uberti build guns in "batches" or "runs". Not a constant production schedule.  If that short rifle is still available from Cimarron, JUMP ON IT.

Coffinmaker

PS:  Real easy to make a Uberti '73 real user friendly without breaking the budget.
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2017, 09:30:22 am »

I agree, if I was wanting a new 38-40 I'd jump on that Cimarron.
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Mean Bob Mean
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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2017, 01:02:50 pm »

There are other venues:  Gunbroker has them occasionally and I would post here in classifieds and on the SASS wire and see if perhaps someone did not have a .38-40 safe queen to dispose of.  For example, I found a half dozen on GB just now casting about.  Many had 24 inch barrels though.  Best of luck in all your endeavors. 
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wildman1
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« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2017, 07:05:21 am »

MRAP (couldn't resist)

Should you decide/elect/find a Miroku '73 in 38-40, there is an after-market Firing Pin Extension rod available that eliminates all that wonky stuff in the extension rod.  The only other difficulty you may encounter with the Miroku is altering the trigger block safety spring to make the trigger block more user friendly.

Coffinmaker
Just remove the wonky stuff. Works fine. As far as the trigger block safety spring LEP has pics of it being cut off  after the bend in the spring and replace the removed piece with a piece of piano wire. To lighten the springs up just put spacers under them. Back the mainspring screw about a turn and you will have a very slick rifle. No grinding or polishing of springs needed.
wM1
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mrappe
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« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2017, 01:00:42 pm »

Yesterday I ordered a  1873 Special Sporting Rifle .38-40 20 Octagonal, Blue Finish with Case Hardened Frame from Taylor's it is like this one below but it is in 38 WCF instead of 44 WCF. It was not showing on the Web in 38 WCF but when I talked to them they said that they one available. I kind of wanted to buy from Cimarron (Texas Jack) because they started close to where I live and everytime I go to Fredericksburg I stop in there. Also,the owner was one of the founders of the club that I am in. Unfortunately they did not have a model that I wanted available in 38-40 and they told me that they did not know when they would have one.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/cartridge-rifles/1873-lever-action/1873-special-sporting-rifle/1873-special-sporting-rifle-44-40-20-octagonal-blue-finish-with-case-hardened-frame-walnut-checkered-pistol-grip-model-205.html

We will see how it shoots.

Thanks for the replies,
Mrappe
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Mean Bob Mean
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« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2017, 08:47:48 am »

You're going to love it, best of everything.
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treebeard
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2017, 01:33:54 pm »

My 1873SRC in 38-40 is a dream to shoot-- I am sure you will love your short rifle.
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1873 (Moderator: Major 2)  |  Topic: Advice sought on a new '73 Winchester in 38 WCF or 44 WCF « previous next »
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