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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1873 (Moderator: Major 2)  |  Topic: .45 Colt or .44-40 in uberti 1873 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: .45 Colt or .44-40 in uberti 1873  (Read 4448 times)
Pettifogger
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« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2017, 10:27:43 pm »

Well, the dealer I ordered the gun from told me yesterday that they had ordered from Taylor & Co in Virginia (I believe) and they had one left in stock but they opened it and found a big scratch on it and said they would not send it to my dealer.   The dealer then contacted another distributor in Maryland and they had several in stock and it should be on it's way to my dealer.    They apologized for the delay whereas I thanked them for not trying to give me a scratched gun.  (if there is any wear and tear on it, I'm going to do it myself, LOL!!)

What dealer is there in Maryland?   (the dealer employee couldn't remember off the top of his head) I know there is Cimarron in Texas and Taylor & Co in Virginia but those are the two big ones that I know of.   Since Uberti is (or was) in Maryland (or did they move to Tennessee under the same umbrella with Beretta?) could they have ordered directly from the factory somehow?

There's dealers, distributors and importers.  Generally a dealer is your local gun store.  A distributor is a large wholesaler that sells to dealers.  An importer is the one that imports guns and sells them to the distrubutors and dealers.  Taylors is an importer and sells to distributors and dealers.
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Major 2
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« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2017, 05:49:53 am »

Well, the dealer I ordered the gun from told me yesterday that they had ordered from Taylor & Co in Virginia (I believe) and they had one left in stock but they opened it and found a big scratch on it and said they would not send it to my dealer.   The dealer then contacted another distributor in Maryland and they had several in stock and it should be on it's way to my dealer.    They apologized for the delay whereas I thanked them for not trying to give me a scratched gun.  (if there is any wear and tear on it, I'm going to do it myself, LOL!!)

What dealer is there in Maryland?   (the dealer employee couldn't remember off the top of his head) I know there is Cimarron in Texas and Taylor & Co in Virginia but those are the two big ones that I know of.   Since Uberti is (or was) in Maryland (or did they move to Tennessee under the same umbrella with Beretta?) could they have ordered directly from the factory somehow?

Probably  Stoeger -Accokeek, Maryland  also serves as an FFL for importing firearms by Uberti, also  Benelli Beretta group.
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2017, 06:30:39 pm »

Honestly I would much rather have one from Cimarron or Taylors. The markings make for a much nicer looking gun.

The Stoegers have funky looking stamping on them and for whatever other reasons the ones I have owned and compared on average the Cimarrons or Taylors just seem to be nicer finished and better looking wood on them.

I hear all the time they are all Ubertis and all the same but I've compared and owned piles of Uberti guns and that is not necessarily true.

I have culled my herd to cherry pick the best ones and that has pretty much left every Uberti in my safe to be Cimarron except for some older Navy Arms Imported stuff.
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2017, 10:09:36 pm »

Honestly I would much rather have one from Cimarron or Taylors. The markings make for a much nicer looking gun.

The Stoegers have funky looking stamping on them and for whatever other reasons the ones I have owned and compared on average the Cimarrons or Taylors just seem to be nicer finished and better looking wood on them.

I hear all the time they are all Ubertis and all the same but I've compared and owned piles of Uberti guns and that is not necessarily true.

I have culled my herd to cherry pick the best ones and that has pretty much left every Uberti in my safe to be Cimarron except for some older Navy Arms Imported stuff.

Well that's not encouraging.  My gun came in yesterday.  I still have to go pick it up next time I'm in Houston.  But I hope it looks good.    But then my Schofield is a Stoeger and it looks pretty good. 
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2017, 08:31:43 pm »

Well I picked mine up today.  Distributed by stoger.  .44-49 carbine 1873 winchester uberti.

Brought it to my mom and dads house in the box, dad ask me what kind of rifle i got.  "1873 Winchester", said I.

"OH REALLY?!" he said, excited.   He then said: "turn around and look what whats on."

I turned around and he haf JUST started watching Winchester '73 with Jimmy Stewart ON TCM.   LOL

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Back Roads
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« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2017, 08:57:04 pm »

Isn't carma great! Enjoy your '73. My '73 is my favorite repeater.
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Buck Stinson
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« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2017, 09:17:38 pm »

If I'm  not  mistaking, the question is .45 Colt or .44-40 in a Uberti '73.  We all know that the .45LC was never chambered in any of the early Winchesters.  Because I  like period original stuff, I would never buy one in a non-original caliber. Just my opinion.
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2017, 09:44:46 pm »

If I'm  not  mistaking, the question is .45 Colt or .44-40 in a Uberti '73.  We all know that the .45LC was never chambered in any of the early Winchesters.  Because I  like period original stuff, I would never buy one in a non-original caliber. Just my opinion.

I trend to agree.  I would not want any rifle in .38 spl or .357 magnum.
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2017, 08:55:15 am »

If I'm  not  mistaking, the question is .45 Colt or .44-40 in a Uberti '73.  We all know that the .45LC was never chambered in any of the early Winchesters.  Because I  like period original stuff, I would never buy one in a non-original caliber. Just my opinion.

I tend to agree however I have owned a couple 45's and still own one of them. It was a deal too good to pass up.
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« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2017, 12:59:06 pm »

I have kinda sorta agree with Buck & Cliff... Smiley

but the thing is  I have both 44/40 & 45 in Henry's ( 2 each )

two were Gifts (1 each ) 1 45 was in a trade and the other 44/40 I bought ( in fact twice having bought it NIB sold it and bought it back many years later.)

I also have a 73 in 44 Special & am seeking one in 32/20....

like Doug...I pass on 38/357.............38/40 Hmmmmm
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2017, 10:29:52 pm »

Is the carbine supposed to have a saddle ring?  Mine doesnt.  I thought it was called a saddle ring carbine
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2017, 06:55:39 am »

Is the carbine supposed to have a saddle ring?  Mine doesnt.  I thought it was called a saddle ring carbine

If it has a ring I guess you can call it a saddle ring carbine. Otherwise it's just a carbine. Wink I prefer not to have the ring on mine.
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2017, 09:27:19 am »

If it has a ring I guess you can call it a saddle ring carbine. Otherwise it's just a carbine. Wink I prefer not to have the ring on mine.

If i had a choice i guess id rather not too.  But i thought it came on all of them
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2017, 11:10:05 am »

It would seem for whatever reason I managed to ignore/miss this thread for the longest time.  At least until it is actually too late because Doug.38PR already made a decision and bought his rifle.

However ... It's Monday and I'm bored and my Dog wandered off down stairs and I'm alone and ................

There are several considerations for this question.  Mostly from purely mechanical/practical stand points.  First up is the .45 which is actually more versatile than the 44-40.  With the 45 you have a choice of cartridges, 45 Colt, 45 Schofield and C45S (needs a carrier).  The main drawback is Blow-By.  With 45 cartridges, you get blow-back.  The case will not expand to seal out modern chambers.  The chambers are simply too generous.  Blow-By results in crud building up on the Carrier Block and in the Mortice.  A goodly amount of cleaning is required and some rifles will need a squirt of something in the middle of a CAS match to keep running.  From a personal prejudice vein, NO lever rifles were ever charred in 45 Colt in the time period we portray.

44-40 or 38-40.  The only versatility with the 44-40 is bullet weight and fillers for reduced charges.  With a 44-40 you have a 44-40.  No other cartridges will work.  44-40 is normally Clean, Free Running and Sanitary.  The case seals the chamber so there is seldom any Blow-By at all.  Normally the Carrier Block and Mortice will be as clean at the end of a CAS match as it was at the start.  A Patch or two thru the bore and your done.  From the personal prejudice vein, the 44-40 was the introductory cartridge for the 1873 Rifle.  Historically correct.

If your desire is something resembling history, your only choices are 44-40, 38-40 and 32-20.  If on the other hand, your crazy like I am and just can't resist messing with your rifles, go with the 45 and learn to put up with the Blow-By.

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« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2017, 11:36:31 am »

My first 1873 was in .45 Colt, which I never could get to shoot well, no matter how many different loads I tried in it.  I bought it second hand and maybe that's why it was available.  Some loads had more blow-by than others.  Haven't replaced it, but my 1892 in .38-40 is wonderfully accurate.

If this is even mildly informative to someone, well - okay than.
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2017, 03:30:17 pm »

If i had a choice i guess id rather not too.  But i thought it came on all of them

Naw you can order them either way.
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2017, 08:52:05 pm »

Well, I've had a lot of fun with this gun.  All of you seem to have been right about the .44-40 over other calibers.   Here is a video I did for the gun illustrating the inner workings and showing just how clean the gun is after having fired 10 rounds of CleanShot Black Powder substitute.    The velocity of the original rounds fired was actually about 1230 ft per second (like the Cleanshot) and 8 gr of Unique 1180 ft per second.   What I quote in the video for originals and Unique was what I was expecting whereas the gun performed beyond my expectations.  

I like this gun.   I am shocked at how clean it is after using that dirty so-called Clean Shot powder.  <iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fAaUmfa23Zs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Does anybody else have experience with Clean Shot?  I usually use American Pioneer in recent years.  But this old can of Clean Shot is all I have that comes close to black powder right now.  That stuff is a mess.
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Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2017, 10:40:49 pm »

I got to be the first to "like" your video! It was kind of funny watching you cycle the action with the sideplate off.  I was saying to ,
myself,  "That left toggle link is going to fall out. Yep, it's working it's way out. Ah, he touched it and could feel it out of place. Ah, he pushed it back. Oops, it's working its way back out. Yep, there it goes!"  I don't want to think about all of the times I've done that. Nice video.  I always like seeing other's guns and never seem to tire watching a toggle link action work.  Thanks!  Oh--mine is a 44WCF too.  It's just a perfect match of cartridge and gun. A match made in Connecticut.

CC Griff
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2017, 11:27:16 pm »

I got to be the first to "like" your video! It was kind of funny watching you cycle the action with the sideplate off.  I was saying to ,
myself,  "That left toggle link is going to fall out. Yep, it's working it's way out. Ah, he touched it and could feel it out of place. Ah, he pushed it back. Oops, it's working its way back out. Yep, there it goes!"  I don't want to think about all of the times I've done that. Nice video.  I always like seeing other's guns and never seem to tire watching a toggle link action work.  Thanks!  Oh--mine is a 44WCF too.  It's just a perfect match of cartridge and gun. A match made in Connecticut.

CC Griff

Hey thanks for the like.  I just added a more extended version explaining why tge .44-40 doesnt have any blowback and the different powders.

Yeah, that toggle link is very loose and easy.  Especially with the other sideplate off.   (See my other thread about the pain in the butt that was getting it back on, lol).   Anyway, this gun is really impressive.  I have no regrets in my selection and am thankful for all of yalls recomendations and thoughts on the .44-40
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« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2017, 03:16:17 pm »

Hi

On a side note, I just finished reading Mike Venturino's books on both Cowboy pistols and Lever guns.  He reviews the guns, and loads for them.  The 44/40 was the most accurate load for SAA and most of the lever guns.  .45 Long Colt wasn't, and wasn't even close.

 I have several non-cowboy purchases to to work up loads for.  After I get that sort of thing done, I think I'll get a couple of SAA in 44/40 and a 24 inch lever gun in the same caliber. 

Later Y'all
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« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2017, 05:37:56 pm »

I got on the 44WCF band wagon this year. 

In January we found a Marlin 1894 Century Limited in a local gun shop and trained for it. No box or papers and no testimony but it looks unfired.  It's hidden in a sock in the safe. 

I then ran into a nice pre-safey Marlin 1894 carbine in 44 Magnum at good price and trained for it.   I knew Numrich Arms had a 44WCF barrel that would fit it.  A local cowboy gunsmith swapped the barrels.  No problems. Works and looks like it was made in 44WCF.   

Then I had bought a brace of Taylor Smoke Wagon Deluxes in 44WCF.

Then I got the bug for a Winchester Miroku 73 in 44WCF and found a used one.  I'm very impressed with the quality of the Miroku Winchester. 

Meanwhile,  I was negotiating a deal to buy a Marlin 1894 Cowboy Limited in 44WCF from another cowboy action shooters. By now I'm getting 44WCF poor!  But this Marlin had all the custom parts installed and action worked over by Widowmaker Hill.  It's as slick as oil on ice.  And it's a reasonably rare gun in that it is one of 336 made by Marlin for Davidsons in 2000.     

I load with BlackMZ in Starline cases with 160 grain bullet.
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 10:23:51 pm »

Hi

On a side note, I just finished reading Mike Venturino's books on both Cowboy pistols and Lever guns.  He reviews the guns, and loads for them.  The 44/40 was the most accurate load for SAA and most of the lever guns.  .45 Long Colt wasn't, and wasn't even close.

 I have several non-cowboy purchases to to work up loads for.  After I get that sort of thing done, I think I'll get a couple of SAA in 44/40 and a 24 inch lever gun in the same caliber. 

Later Y'all


Yeah, iíve hsd thoughts of getting a cimarron 7.5 in 44-40 but they are geting harder to come by and my vaquero .45 or Schofield uberti serve fine.  Just load my gunbelt half and half when i have my rifle
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1873 (Moderator: Major 2)  |  Topic: .45 Colt or .44-40 in uberti 1873 « previous next »
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