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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Longbranch (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Silver Creek Slim, Camille Eonich)  |  Topic: I need some help ironing out the details in my persona 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: I need some help ironing out the details in my persona  (Read 2637 times)
Doc Jackson
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« on: March 09, 2017, 12:12:38 am »


Hello everyone,

                 Im new to CAS but not to competitive shooting or firearms in general. Im getting started in CAS not for competition but for fun and I think the most fun is in building a persona. I am also a huge fan of loading and shooting black powder cartridges. I need help ironing out some details. Here is what I have so far

I was born in December 7, 1865 in Baltimore. I enlisted in the Army September 23, 1884 served with C Troop 7th U.S. Cavalry until September 22, 1888 when my enlistment was up, I later served in a provost unit from May 11, 1891 to February 10, 1892. In between and since I worked for various freight outfits and as a logger. Ive set persona in around 1894 to 1899, the end of the era.

I tried to base this off of my real life time in the Army where I served as a line medic in 1st Plt A Trp 3/7 CAV 2BDE 3ID and served in Iraq, later I did 10 months in the reserves with the 800th MP BDE. I have also worked for freight companies and I have done some logging.

My questions are first did the Army have MP units in the 1890's? what were they called, I figured provosts but Im not sure. Second was C Troop 7th Cavalry involved in any fighting whatsoever from the dates I have for my service?

If anyone wants to know my guns are a Pietta 1851 Navy .36, Pietta 1860 Army .44, 20ga Stevens 311A, and a Rossi 92' Carbine .45 Colt  for my main guns
my others are a Lovell single shot 12ga, Pietta NMA .44, Pietta G&G .36, and a Forehand .32 S&W 6 shot pocket revolver.

I tuned my revolvers and they work great, and tuned and re-sprung my 92' with Palo Verde springs which I can recommended as they made a world of difference. I actually had all of my guns and leather except my 92' before I had even thought about CAS.

My leather is from Allen Byrne at The Old Pueblo Saddle Company, except the Army belt which is from Carrico.

I know my revolvers would be old fashioned by 1894 but I figured it would make more sense to have a new carbine and old revolvers rather than the other way around. Pistols being normally being a lower priority and less useful than long guns. And for me in real life I had an AR-15 and my pistol was first a Colt New Service .455, then I "upgraded" to a Romanian TTC 7.62x25mm  Grin
which is actually a fine pistol IMHO.




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St. George
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2017, 10:53:33 am »

These are the noted Campaigns of the Seventh during the Indian Wars:

 - Washita River, Indian Territory - November 27, 1867
 - Honsinger Bluff, Montana Territory - August 4, 1873
 - Yellowstone River, Montana Territory - August 11, 1873
 - Little Bighorn, Montana Territory - June 25-26, 1876
 - Canyon Creek, Montana Territory - September 13, 1877
 - Bear Paw Mountain, Montana Territory - September 30-October 5, 1877
 - Crow Agency, Montana Territory - November 5, 1887
 - Wounded Knee, South Dakota - December 29, 1890
 - Drexel Mission, South Dakota - December 30, 1890

There were more skirmishes, but they got Battle Streamers for these.

During that time frame you wish to represent, no Military Police element existed - that was a detail - not a career field. nor was being a medic - that generally fell to the Band.

By the 1890's, you'd own a SAA - never have been issued a percussion piece - and the M1903 Cartridge Pouch would be issued with the .Colt .38 DA some years later.

Scouts Out!


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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2017, 11:34:14 am »

Select "Low Range" on the drive of a local "Steam Roller" and put it in gear.  Hop out, run around in front of it and lay down with a book.  Soon, all those pesky little problems and details will be completely "ironed out"  Grin

Coffinmaker
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wildman1
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 01:53:37 pm »

SA.  Roll Eyes  Tongue  Cheesy
wM1
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Blair
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 05:26:02 pm »

Doc,

It seems you are on the right track.
The revolvers would be a bit out dated, but not uncommon.
Please keep in mind the production dates of the two earlier Winchesters. The '66 and '73's. They were both available well into your selected time period, and would have been very much more available than let us say the '92's in most places.
My best,
 Blair
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Blair Taylor
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Doc Jackson
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 07:55:24 pm »


During that time frame you wish to represent, no Military Police element existed - that was a detail - not a career field. nor was being a medic - that generally fell to the Band.

By the 1890's, you'd own a SAA - never have been issued a percussion piece - and the M1903 Cartridge Pouch would be issued with the .Colt .38 DA some years later.

Scouts Out!


I know line medics didnt exist back then but I figured I would have been a regular trooper. As a platoon medic I did just as many scout duties than medical ones, so I didnt feel hospital steward would be appropriate. I dont have to tell you though, Im sure you had line medics so you know the deal. I meant the percussion revolvers were my personal revolvers, Im supposed to be a former soldier doing his own thing.

I was wondering though, when did the army get rid of its percussion revolvers and rifles? The only reference Ive read of anyone using a percussion rifle past 1866 were some Black troops in 1874.

How did enlistment work back then, was it similar to today with common 3 or 4 year contracts?

Doc,

It seems you are on the right track.
The revolvers would be a bit out dated, but not uncommon.
Please keep in mind the production dates of the two earlier Winchesters. The '66 and '73's. They were both available well into your selected time period, and would have been very much more available than let us say the '92's in most places.
My best,
 Blair

Yeah, I'd prefer an earlier gun but I got what I could afford, its the reason why I set my persona so late.  I figure by 1894 I could have gotten a 92' if I wanted one. The Rossi isn't as terrible as everyone says though. When I first bought it it was as rough as a cob but after stoning and re-springing its really slick; The throw is long, but its something you just need to train yourself to use. My revolvers have so far been 100% reliable Im sure that will change now that I said that. I just tuned them by watching Mike Beliveau's video and paying attention to detail, I havent changed the nipples yet, as they seem to work well.



Anyway  thanks everyone for your  advice and comments so far.
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St. George
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2017, 12:02:01 am »

A five-year enlistment contract was typical.

There was no provision made for anything resembling the line medic as we know him today - the Army hadn't come that far, and the most basic first aid was a mystery to most soldiers.

What was known was what was remembered from home or seen on the battlefield that worked, but dressings were non-existent.

The Army got rid of percussion weaponry quickly - during the Civil War, the cartridge Spencer was in issue, and post-war, thousands and thousands of muskets were converted to cartridge via the Allin conversion method, until the Model 1873 Trapdoor made its debut.

The 1860 Colt percussions became converted, as well - then evolved into the Model of 1873, so by 1873, you can safely figure that there were no percussions still in general service.

Scouts Out!
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Doc Jackson
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2017, 12:43:31 am »

A five-year enlistment contract was typical.

There was no provision made for anything resembling the line medic as we know him today - the Army hadn't come that far, and the most basic first aid was a mystery to most soldiers.

Scouts Out!

I guess I'd round my four years and ten months to 5 years.

Yeah I understand there were no medics, I'd have just been a regular trooper.

You seem to know alot, do you have any idea of what items a soldier could keep when they left the army and what they had to turn in. Im sure that then just like today soldier sometimes ended up with extra stuff and would probably keep it. Was is just pretty much just your uniforms like the current policy?
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St. George
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2017, 10:43:38 am »

After several decades, I'd think so...

No - those belonged to the Army and were turned in when mustered out.

A Regular actually owned very little that was personal - the Army gave him what was needed, replaced what was too badly worn for continued Service and that was that - he also wasn't issued all that much.

Read 'Forty Miles A Day' - by Rickey to get an idea of life and times of the Indian-fighting Army.

Sometimes, he owned a spare shirt, socks and underclothing - often purchased when a man had died or deserted - sometimes purchased in town - but his pay was such that frivolities like that were not common.

He'd leave with civilian clothing (because military uniform clothing was looked down upon by civilians), his toiletries and maybe a slicker, blanket and canteen 'if' the Post Quartermaster had spares.

Now, if something was declared obsolete, there was a chance, but the Army used up pretty much everything if had had left from the Civil War, and campaigns used up the poor-quality clothing rapidly, so by the '90's pretty much everything was in well-worn condition, and buying a civilian outfit was preferable.

Scouts Out!
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Blair
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2017, 01:44:01 pm »

My great Grand Father, Charles S. Auld, was in three CS units, captured twice, and after the second capture was imprisoned at Lookout Point, MD. Where he volunteered for Co. F of the 1st United States Volunteer Infantry . The first official Government sanctioned galvanized Yankee unit, just to get out of POW camp. (that is the short story)
Within his service records show he lost his hat, "due to his own negligence", and had deducted from his pay .57 cents.
Not for the loss of the hat. The cost of the hat was deducted from his pay too, but as a normal replacement item. The Regimental markings (brass) that were on that lost hat came up as an extra charge taken from his pay and shows up on his records.
I hope this little story helps?
My best,
 Blair
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Blair Taylor
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2017, 03:53:57 pm »

As far as what "a soldier kept" when mustering out is concerned, he might if he thought he could get away with it, and had enough mustering out pay on the books to cover it, "lose" about anything and have the cost deducted from his pay. In the instance of arms and ammunition, it depended on whether he could give the quartermaster a credible enough story as to what happened to the article. Although there are no extant records past June 1876 (National Archives has no idea where they went!), prior to that there were even instances of Springfield and Sharps carbines having been lost/"lost" by troops and civilian employees of the QM Dept. (teamsters, packers and scouts). By the late 1800's it would probably be more difficult to hide such pieces, unless it would have been Colt's Single Action Army's after the issuance of the Colt's DA .38LC, the former possibly not being missed shortly after a patrol, etc. Not saying it was common, but it might have happened.
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Blair
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2017, 02:22:23 pm »

As far as what "a soldier kept" when he mustered out, he was authorized to keep his clothing. Clothing was deducted without it being a part of his normal pay, before he received it.
Had he not have had a clothing issue for a while, which was common, when mustering out, then that clothing issuance pay would be added to his mustering out pay.
After the Civil War (1865) many soldier were allowed to buy there arms at a reduced price, providing they had enough back pay coming to them. Arms were very much a part of this system during that time.
When the reduced sale price of arms stopped for the departing soldiers, I do not know exactly. 1875/76 for the more modern arms would seem to be about correct. The Government still ad large numbers of surplus arms and ammo that they were willing to make a few pennies on there dollar investment just to get rid of them.
Hope this info helps.
My best,
 Blair
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"In times of war and not before,
God and the soldier we adore.
But in times of peace and all things right,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted"
by Rudyard Kipling.
Blair Taylor
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2017, 08:28:50 pm »

From the 1880's there were members of the Hospital Corps with various regimental detachments.  On 1 July 1916 during the reorganization of the military, the Hospital Corps detachments were renamed Medical Corps detachments.
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Doc Jackson
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« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2017, 09:25:20 pm »

After listening to everyone's advice and doing alot of research, I decided to to revamp my persona to fit me better. I have settled on representing a newly arrived person from back east, I chose Baltimore because its where Im from and its easier for me to do research on the area. I done a bit of reading about this area growing up and Ive taken historic tours and looked at alot of pictures of Baltimore in the late 19th century. Im surrounded by the 19th century even at my house many of the bricks in my front side walk are dated AUG, 1889. Here in Baltimore and all along the bay, bird hunting was an extremely common pastime that even city folks enjoyed so many people would have had a shotgun or two. I have seen dozens of antique weapon displays that included punt guns and exhibits about the waterfowl hunting on the bay during that time.


Here is my revamped persona

I was born in December 7, 1865 in Baltimore. I enlisted in the Army September 23, 1884 served with C Troop 7th U.S. Cavalry until September 22, 1889. When I mustered out, I returned to Baltimore and worked at various jobs including freighter, rat catcher, waiter, and hardware clerk. In September 1893 I decided to go back out west in search of better prospects. Currently Im without gainful employment and without lodging. I did a bit of gambling on the train coming here so I have some petty cash and Im camping outskirts of whatever city/town Im in.

My guns are an 1851 Navy that I got as a teenager, even though it is obsolete it still works and I dont see a need to replace it. I have  two shotguns, my old single shot 12 ga and a new SxS boxlock 20 ga, that I used for duck hunting back in Baltimore.



I need to think of good reasons as to how I got my other guns. I also need ideas for little personal items to carry, I narrowed down my time frame and area. Even Im supposed to be out west Im newly arrived from Baltimore so I want to carry items that represent that area. I was thinking a few train tickets, match books. What items do you guys carry? What do you think about my changes?
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« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2017, 06:04:47 am »

St. George ....knowing " a lot " is a understatement ....  Smiley  a major UNDERSTATEMENT !

If you have Robert's  ear....you will be well schooled ....  Cheesy
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