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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: something bothers me 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: something bothers me  (Read 2846 times)
Bunk Stagnerg
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« on: February 24, 2017, 06:26:34 pm »


Hello the camp!

I have been roaming around in U-Tube land watching some "experts" and Bottom Dealing Mike who is a really an expert on loading , shooting and cleaning percussion revolvers.
Some information they put out is, to my experience and knowledge, fairly beguine except some shooting max charges of 777 and slugs not so much.
The thing that really bothers me is almost all of the "experts" cap the nipples with their thumb. As I recall one of the  shooters on this forum or Open range (RIP) had a cap pop and converted his thumb from long haul to short trips only.

I have always used a capper mostly because of my non-dexterity with small caps, marbles ar any thing smaller that a soft ball.
 For a long time I used a straight line capper marked "KM" when I was shooting my '51 Hartford Navy Colt. I had picked the capper up out of a pile of stuff at a gun show in the now so long ago and stopped using it when I found out  KM was not Kurtis Morrison, but the mark on the accessories of Colt revolvers bought by the Kreigs Marine, translates roughly "Waror Fighting Navy" in the early 1850's.
At least that is what I was told by a knowledgeable Colt collector. I still have it.
I would hope that some of the "experts" would learn a little about what they are talking about. I would guess that an occurrence like that would really ruin your day.
Any comments?
Yr' Obt' Svt'
(with 2 thumbs)
Bunk
P.S. Although I did spend two and a half years in Germany most of my broken German had to do with interaction between my self and young ladies...also in the now so very long ago
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Noz
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 06:46:55 pm »

You sprecken shlaveszimmer deutch? Once I got past ordering a beer my German gave out.

The guy with the thumb is Cutts Crooked and he can be found on CAS City.

I always use a Ted Cash snail capper because my fingers are not designed for tiny things like percussion caps.  I know a few folks that still cap with their fingers but they are few and far between.  Ted Cash is your frined.
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Noz
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 08:06:06 pm »

I've found that since I discovered U-Tube land viewing everything from shooting, reloading, playing a guitar, fixing a chain saw, riding mower, repairing a auto, etc, that there are a lot of video's that the person who is starring in and explaining 'how to' doesn't know their subject very well and evidently hasn't been involved in their particular endeavor very long. Have seen guys that didn't know the name of gun parts and their function of a firearm he was telling the world how to fix. Didn't know proper procedures in how to reload a metallic cartridge. Some of the video's showing how to load and shoot, I swear that the 'star' is only on his 2nd go-round in doing it. Seen some that the guitar hero couldn't play guitar to save himself. Viewed some on 'how to fix' that the explainer had little and suspect knowledge on how to tune/repair mechanical things. Seen some stuff that could alter or end the life of the person and others near the filming. I'm not an expert on anything, I'm knowledgeable on some, and some things, I don't know squat. It's not hard when viewing some of what is on U-Tube to pick out the good from the 'crap'! There is though a lot of good instructional and educational video's on U-Tube, just need to be discerning.

I also use a Cash Snail Capper. Best thing to come down the pike for cap and ball shootin. Back when I first started out cap and ballin', before I bought a inline capper, I and others used to finger place em. In fact the caps didn't fit real snug so we had to squeeze them a little so they'd stay on the nipples. Even then some would fall off when firing. The good Ol' days of the early 70's.

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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 09:54:45 pm »

I know a retired Mountie that uses a 5" piece of dowling to seat the caps on his revolvers to set them tight.  I was thinking of doing the same with my 1861 navy.
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Bunk Stagnerg
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 10:28:06 pm »

That is what I use a snail or straight line capper and a small dowel with a bigger piece for a handle.
I am not sure exactly what would happen if one went KABOOM but rather a piece of wood than my thumb. I have seen pictures of Cuts Crooked hand and it is bad I am not sure how he cocks the hammer.

Hi Cuts any thoughts on this?

And Crow Choker you are correct so many of those things on the tube are silly, stupid, or dangerous. I show people my way and what works for me then they are on their own. I am schooled by people like Mike B. who know what they are doing not some wacko that has no idea what they are doing. The problem is there are people starting in this fun game that can wind up either hurt or discouraged.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk
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hellgate
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 11:05:51 pm »

Snail cappers are fine for casual (untimed) capping. For a match with capping on the clock I alway use an inline capper. If a snail capper gets a cap tipped over it is jammed. An inline allows you to shove the tipped cap out of the way and you can continue capping the rest of the chambers. I was "called out" by about 5 other shooters at a major match(Uno Muy Malo Hombre in Renton, WA) but they all used Ruger Old Armies and snail cappers. I used stock 44 cal ASM Navies and a pair of Uberti Remingtons with inline cappers. Most of the other shooters consistantly beat me by time but I won the category (Frontiersman) because I could cap much more quickly and with out time robbing jams.
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Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2017, 02:55:42 am »

There was an Ancient Learned One who once said "90% of everything is crap"
When looking at u-toob I have to think it's more like 95%.

There are a few shining examples of the "good 5%"

Unfortunately U-toob has allowed every idiot with a webcamera to become a  "legend in their own mind" .
There are even a number of TV ( boob toob ) shows that use U-toob as an unlimited supply of free material!
( queue laff track )

Back on topic, I too use a capper, and brought my Rifle Short starter to push the caps on tight :-)

yhs
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Bunk Stagnerg
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2017, 09:13:04 am »

Hi Hell Gate
I also shoot frontiersman and put powder, wad, and ball at my cart then I cap at the loading table just like the cartridge gun shooters do. I am going to a straight line capper because for some reason my snail capper delivers at least one cap sideways per gun and is an aggravation. I just kick it out and keep on. But I am not on the clock.
As far as the utoob/uboob stuff I watch it mostly to wonder who ties the shoes on a lot of those dodos. The guy with whiskers that makes his own gun powder and breaks it up with a hammer is like watching a "Bubba, hold my beer and watch this" sort of thing.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk
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Noz
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2017, 02:52:20 pm »

If you Ted Cash capper is not working correctly, call them.  You know the cappers are guaranteed for life?
I would not attempt a CAS match without mine.
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Noz
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2017, 04:09:06 pm »

My Turn!!  My Turn!!  I get to jump in!!  My Turn!!

I've seen any number of uBoob video's in which the "presenter" shouldn't be allowed to walk around off-leash.  Stupid doesn't begin to describe.

I always remind folks, there is a vast difference between 20 years of experience, and just one year, repeated 20 times.  There are always the "experts" who learned from Ralph, who learned from his great uncle, who just hit something with the hammer and it worked.  But will swear it's Gospel.  An Ex is a Has been.  A Spert is just a drip under pressure.  I always shudder watching the all knowing clown dropping rounds down an almost vertical Henry magazine.  Yup .... an Expert.  Where were we ...... Oh .. I remember >>>>>

I use a Ted Cash Snail Capper.  Always have.  Don't like inlines one bit (personal preference here).  Once or twice each match I personally do something stupid (like look away) and wind up with a cap catiwumpus and have to fix it.  But, that happens at the loading table.  I personally don't do on the clock reloads (capping).  I NEVER EVER EVER apply or seat caps with my THUMB.  I like my thumb.  If you blow part of it off, it feel funny when you suck on it (I've had others tell me that).  I have a really neat brass rod with a mushroom cap on it I use to "final seat" the caps.  it's simple.  Push the cap, don't whack it.

PLUS ONE for "Ted Cash is your Friend."  And in passing (Bean-0??), If they look stupid doing something, usually they are.  If you are present when they look stupid doing something (with guns especially), quickly walk the other way whilst hiding your thumbs.

Coffinmaker
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Noz
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2017, 08:10:44 am »

I fixed an 1866 feeding problem by hitting a specific part HARD with a big hammer.  I told two different gunsmiths what I had done and they still wake up screaming after 3 years.
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Noz
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2017, 08:48:16 am »

My Turn!!  My Turn!!  I get to jump in!!  My Turn!!

I've seen any number of uBoob video's in which the "presenter" shouldn't be allowed to walk around off-leash.  Stupid doesn't begin to describe.

I always remind folks, there is a vast difference between 20 years of experience, and just one year, repeated 20 times.  There are always the "experts" who learned from Ralph, who learned from his great uncle, who just hit something with the hammer and it worked.  But will swear it's Gospel.  An Ex is a Has been.  A Spert is just a drip under pressure.  I always shudder watching the all knowing clown dropping rounds down an almost vertical Henry magazine.  Yup .... an Expert.  Where were we ...... Oh .. I remember >>>>>

I use a Ted Cash Snail Capper.  Always have.  Don't like inlines one bit (personal preference here).  Once or twice each match I personally do something stupid (like look away) and wind up with a cap catiwumpus and have to fix it.  But, that happens at the loading table.  I personally don't do on the clock reloads (capping).  I NEVER EVER EVER apply or seat caps with my THUMB.  I like my thumb.  If you blow part of it off, it feel funny when you suck on it (I've had others tell me that).  I have a really neat brass rod with a mushroom cap on it I use to "final seat" the caps.  it's simple.  Push the cap, don't whack it.

PLUS ONE for "Ted Cash is your Friend."  And in passing (Bean-0??), If they look stupid doing something, usually they are.  If you are present when they look stupid doing something (with guns especially), quickly walk the other way whilst hiding your thumbs.

Coffinmaker

I've seen that one  Roll Eyes  so much HAIR, so little Smarts  Roll Eyes
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Lefty Dude
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2017, 03:23:34 pm »

Yep; the snail capper for me. When they are new they take a bit of adjustment with my needle nose pliers on the spring, thingiee. Then it is good to go !

I use a Deer antler tang for my cap pusher/seater. Works for me !
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Mogorilla
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2017, 08:22:50 am »

I really almost exclusively shoot cap and ball.   I have moved to in-line cappers as they work with both colt and Remington styles.  I had trouble using the snail capper on Remington.   I also use a dowel to seat them, actually using the Tresco nipples, I probably do not need this step, but it fits in my vest and works, and to para-phrase Rio Lobo, it makes me feel comfortable.   I really only have 8 and a half functioning fingers due to tequila and youthful stupidity, so I guard the working ones quite intently.   

Agree on youtube, I think of it like Wikipedia, good place to start, but do thorough research.
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2017, 09:25:06 am »

I have three inliners and the only time I really use them is shooting Remington's because of the smaller cutout in the Remington cylinders that won't allow use of the snail cappers. Use also when shooting my percussion rifle. I have little problem with caps getting turned in my Cash snailer, have more of it with the inline's and when they turn in them, it's more of a problem than any cap turned sideways in the snail type. Hate loading the inlines too, I can load the snail type and have a full, plus day shooting, the inlines are a different story and a lot more troublesome to load. If I do need to reload caps in the snail, it's an easy and fast process. One of these days, I'm going to alter the Remington cylinder to allow use of a snail capper with them.

I carry either a wooden dowel or small antler tip to seat any troublesome caps, but they don't get much use. Seems when I place a cap onto a nipple with my snail capper and strip it off, they are seated fully and require a rare seating. Happy am I. Grin

Speaking of idiots on U-Tube, saw one some time ago where the presenter was showing how to load and shoot a percussion revolver. After his stumbling talk on his take on how percussion revolvers came about and work, he proceeded to load. He had a 51 Navy revolver and after filling cylinder chambers with powder and ball (that was a fumbling and comedy laden procedure), he put enough grease on top of the balls to grease twenty cars-had it all over the barrel, outside of the cylinder, and frame. Anyway he proceeded to cap it. Used his fingers and had undersized caps. Maybe CCI  #10's, they fit few and far between. Anyway the presenter explained that the caps fit tight so a person when capping a percussion revolver "sometimes you have to gently tap them on". He explained that if just trying to push them on with the fingers won't work, so then you have to use something to push them on. He explained not to use anything metal, that might set them off (glad I was informed of that), but rather use a wooden dowel or a plastic punch and push them on. But--the gently tapping them on came. The guy explained that sometimes pushing them on won't do, so he took a punch like dowel and a small hammer and tapped them to seat. He warned the viewers though "To tap gently, because you don't want to set them off"! No screaming sh*t Einstein! Shocked Shocked Roll Eyes Roll Eyes The guy made it through the presentation with out maiming or killing himself or anyone, at least on that take. A lot of the following comments told him how stupid he was. That video must have either been taken off or is buried in the depths of U-tubes stupidity, haven't seen it since, tried to search for it and no dice. Wonder if the guy is still kicking, maimed in some way, maybe he gave up on percussion revolvers and went on to make video's on how to toss a Frisbe the correct way--unknown. They are out there!!!!
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2017, 06:42:37 pm »

I always recommend using a capper to place caps... & thats how I do it - unless an emergency (lost or forgot the capper).
I have roughly one each of every type of brass capper most have handled, and probably the one type that most haven't.

I prefer my straight-line cappers over the snail type. They're a bit faster to manipulate, seat the caps firmer (I don't use a separate "seater"), and are less likely to eject a cap (I don't like shootin em out on the ground). Also, If I was to lose or accidentally dump the snail model I stand to lose enough caps that I may not be able to finish a match, or maybe lose my hair, like cousin G.A.C. & his pals. I like my cap guns to go bang all the time, & there are more factors at play in this ignition system than a cartridge gun, so I don't expect or want the light hit as one can get with a cartridge gun. But, that's just me.

All that, even though I strive to have a spare revolver, spare parts, tools & spare caps in my truck. Hope I don't need it because it only takes one flub to blow the clean match.

If you're capping a cold gun, the cap won't go off on ya anyway. Pressure doesn't set off these things anyway, certainly not the force combined with the softness of your finger. Impact energy is needed or heat/friction. If you don't think thats true, just place caps (only - no charge) on your nipples, then use your wooden dowel, or better a brass or steel pin punch & press as hard as you can. Use a drill press (not rotating - that will cause friction = heat = "bang") or an arbor press. After all that excessive pressing, you may find the cap is now a dud if you drop the hammer on it.

In summary, it makes no sense to cap individually using your fingers...unless you have to. And, if you do, be sure it's a cold gun. Do you really want to spill caps that cost 2-3 times the cost of a primer? I certainly don't (Mr. Cheapskate)...In fact I can load a .38 special with that other "propellant" for less than the cost of a cap (@ retail price).

As far as pinching caps....it actually works in a "pinch"...but the way to pinch them is not intuitive. If I never get round to writin' my book, I'll have to put it in a u-tube.. Wink

The reason caps go sideways in the Cash snail capper is due to the height of the caps. It is possible to tweak the capper with a mallet.

BTW, Ted Cash isn't making cappers anymore (he sold the business).

Slim
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2017, 09:57:08 am »

Is Ted Cash not making anything?   Means I am going to be buying as many as I can find I guess.   I use the straight line cappers for the same reason.  I used to use the snail, it dropped too many and at one point I dropped it and it was dented to being unusable until a work bench fix, so no shooting the rest of the day, as my big simian fingers do not like to put on caps.   I have 8 straight line cappers, looks like I may need to get more.
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2017, 12:31:48 pm »

While you are pushing the cap in place with the dowel, take note of where your other hand is.

If is anywhere near the cylinder gap, that is a no-no as well.
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2017, 01:24:48 pm »

So what's the 'skinney' Slim. Are the new owners making the same Ted Cash products under another name, retaining the 'Cash' product name, or not even producing cappers or any other of the Cash line. I assume if someone bought the business, they would have intent of still producing the products. For what it's worth, I've had more headaches with in-line cappers than with my snail. Two of the inlines are Cash, the other unknown. Have had it since day one back in March of 72 when I bought my first cap and ball. I'm a Snail capper all thee way. Have no real problem with caps not being set properly on nipples or any construction problems with the snailer. My old original in-line capper looks and is a better quality construction wise than my two Cash. For what it's worth. (ah-old song came to mind-Buffalo Springfield, some time early 1967 if memory serves)

Added 3:04 PM CST----  Just checked Ted Cash website and anything that the web showed for Ted Cash, nothing about being sold. Checked Cash Facebook also, as of 02/27, the last Cash entry, nothing about being sold. Not saying isn't, but nothing I saw on public files. ? ? ?
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« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2017, 04:52:27 pm »

Is Ted Cash not making anything?   Means I am going to be buying as many as I can find I guess.   I use the straight line cappers for the same reason.  I used to use the snail, it dropped too many and at one point I dropped it and it was dented to being unusable until a work bench fix, so no shooting the rest of the day, as my big simian fingers do not like to put on caps.   I have 8 straight line cappers, looks like I may need to get more.

By "sold the business", I'm merely stating "Ted Cash" is not the owner of the business & not personally making or overseeing daily production. I believe he helped the new owner get started. "Ted Cash" cappers and other products are still produced and available at many retail outlets.  Wink


I have a fair sized collection, but no unmodified cappers. Every one of them has been tweaked to work the way I want it to. Common fare in-line cappers would be better if the next thicker gauge of brass were used. This would make them more "rigid" -  BTW, one of my favorite engineering terms  Grin

Adding....
Snail cappers will work best with one particular size/brand of cap...If that's the one you use in all your guns, great..doesn't work that way for me as I have multiple sets of some models & from at least 3 different manufacturers.
I tweaked my snail model to work better with the ones I use most. But, I haven't found this to be 100%. I'm not a happy camper when I try to get the next cap out & find it sitting sideways in the chute, or, worse, it has already flipped out, bounced off the bench & somewhere on the ground. The straight lines are easy to modify & are then essentially stupid-proof. I have multiple in-line cappers, so I tie them together.

Slim
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« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2017, 12:57:57 pm »

I have one of the cappers Bunk mentioned in the original post.  It's a brass straight-line capper manufactured for the Prussian Navy in 1855 for use with the Colt 1851 Navy revolvers they confiscated when Colt tried to smuggle them to Russia during the Crimean War.
Like the revolvers, the cappers were stamped with a "KM" to indicated they belonged to the Königliche Marine (Royal Navy) and with a rack number matching the revolver.  This particular one is marked "KM 812"".


They made identical cappers for their next revolver, the double action M1869.  However, the ones for the M1869 are stamped only "KM", with no rack number.

Since I have one of the M1869 revolvers and its holster, I would like very much to get the correct capper.  If anyone has one I will happily buy it or I would trade my "KM 812" capper.


Mike
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