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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  BROW (Moderator: Delmonico)  |  Topic: Lyman 457193 420 gr 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Lyman 457193 420 gr  (Read 5000 times)
PJ Hardtack
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« on: November 17, 2016, 07:08:56 pm »


I can shoot my 45-70 Shiloh "Business Rifle" from prone all day with Lyman 457125/520 gr bullets over 62 grs of BP in complete comfort, but the same load gets uncomfortable after 20 rds from my new Shiloh #1 Sporter.

Anyone got experience with the Lyman 457193/420 gr bullet in 45-70? I've read that Mike Venturino and others use it in BPCR silhouette on 200m chickens as the recoil is more manageable than the 500+ gr bullets.

I just loaded up 50 rds with the Lyman 457193/420 gr over 65 grs Goex cartridge. Next time it's above freezing I'll give them a go in the Sporter.
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 09:04:05 pm »

I love that bullet. It works great in the Pedersoli Sharps, "Gemmerized" by Gabriel Law. It also works extremely well in my Browning '86 SRC. With W-W cases I can stuff 70 grains of GOEX FFFg for a match to the original #70.  MV is up above 1300 fps, and accurate.
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kwilliams1876
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2016, 08:23:42 am »

yes it is a bullet i shoot almost weekly in something. presently working up an accurate load in my marlin 1881, getting a 3 inch 100yd group currently by using 75 gr of 2f compressed and a felt wad. my main complaint with the lyman mold design is that it has the small lube grooves, and hence does not carry much for a string of shots.
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Kent Shootwell
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2016, 11:04:01 am »

A #1 sporter with standard weight barrel and shotgun butt plate weighs about 10 pounds. A business rifle with its rifle butt plate weighs 9 1/2 pounds. I should think the shape of the business rifle has more bearing on felt recoil then the bullet or load if used in both rifles. Most folks find the sporter easier on them from prone, but we all have different needs.
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2016, 01:00:59 pm »

My Farmingdale Business Rifle weighs 11.4 lbs, the current Sporter weighs 10.6 lbs, both with sights. The 28" barrel of the BR measures 15/16ths at the muzzle. The 30" octagonal barrel of the Sporter measures 14/16ths at the muzzle. The Business Rifle is noticeably heavier when you pick it up.

The advertised weight of Sharps rifles is moot, depending on wood density, barrel dimensions, etc.

I agree with the lack of lube on the 457193 bullet. I get better resuls with a grease cookie or lubed wad.

As for the stocks, the BR has a straight grip, the Sporter a pistol grip, making it easier to hold, especially off hand. I find it almost impossible to shoot past 100m offhand with the BR due to the weight and straight grip.

Sir Charles - your 45-70 load must kick like a mule in your '86 SRC! My '86 rifle is quite pleasant to shoot with 62-65 grs FFG and the 457193. I watched a friend shoot some of his silhouette loads in an '86 carbine, five in all. When he was finished, he put his head down on the bench and was still. Someone touched him and asked if he was OK. Answer - "Yes, I'm just trying hard not to cry."

I still want one, if i can find one at reasonable cost.
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2016, 03:09:28 pm »

Yeah! But I hang on to her pretty good so it's doable, especially from field positions.
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2016, 03:34:26 pm »

If you ever want to do a trade, lemme know ......
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Gabriel Law
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2016, 06:53:49 pm »

What's a Browning '86 SRC?  Specifically, the SRC part...
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Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2016, 07:30:01 pm »

SRC = Saddle Ring Carbine.  Is that what you're asking?

I use this bullet in both my Pedersoli 1874 rifle and my Miroku Winchester 1886 rifle (not carbine).  There have been times with both rifes that I've gotten the buttstock off center on my shoulder and gotten it over the boney area and it has brought tears to my eyes...

CC Griff
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2016, 12:03:52 pm »

One of my Shiloh '63 .50s is a SRC. Stupidest idea ever if you aren't a mounted soldier, especially for a lefty. If you want to hunt with a SRC, you're likely going to remove it unless you enjoy the rattle.

I think the reason we're all nostalgic about SRCs is because our Red Ryder BB guns all had one with a leather thong.

I find that a lot of people can't resist the urge to turn a 45-70 into a sub-.458 Win Mag. That hurts! One of my pals has a scoped Ruger #3 carbine in 45-70. Nice, handy little carbine, but I wouldn't use his loads in ANY of my 45-70s.

The only two moose I've shot fell to a BP equivalent smokeless 45-70 load using the Lyman 457193. "Bang!" - moose down.

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"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2016, 09:32:51 pm »

That thong on a SRC has a purpose. It muffles the rattle.
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2016, 01:02:08 pm »

Perhaps, but not very effectively, unless you wrap leather all around the ring. The ring also does nothing for the finish of the rifle.
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"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
NCOWS
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2016, 02:04:45 pm »

Perhaps, but not very effectively, unless you wrap leather all around the ring. The ring also does nothing for the finish of the rifle.

My '86 SRC has a soft leather disc sewn between the ring and the frame.
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2016, 03:30:35 pm »

Good solution to the problem!
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kwilliams1876
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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2017, 09:32:02 am »

Well last week i was lucky enough to find/buy an early ideal 457193 mold in the original little box. probably from no later than the 1950's? point is that this mold was cut with the large square lube grooves, something i have been longing for quite some time. cant wait to load up a bunch. too bad lyman has gone to the smokeless small grooves in so many of their profiles. by the way, the 457193 is a great elk slayer stuffed in my 45-90 rolling block sporter
regards
kw
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2017, 11:48:16 am »

Good find!
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I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
Otter
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« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2017, 11:14:49 am »

PJ - Late to the party, but - Been shooting the Lyman 457193 (405 gr) and the Lyman 457125 (500 gr) since I first got into shooting BPCR in "97. Both shoot well for me in my 45-70s (2 - single shots and one - lever). The 193 loses some steam after about 300 yds, but is easy on the shoulder from all three of those rifles. Got a 45-90 a few years back and also got a Lyman 457132 (535 gr) Postell mould on the innerweb - THAT is a real thumper and would rally hurt shooting prone for more than 10 shots.

Anyway . . . the 457193 is a real good bullet for the lighter rifles available (IMHO). Might also try the Lyman 457122 (330 gr) "Gould" hollow point bullet as well.

Be well . . . Otter
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2017, 12:14:11 pm »

The bullets that weight more than 520 grs are the darlings of the silhouette game and the LR marksmen.

If your 457193 bullets weigh out at 405 grs, that sounds a little light.
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"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
Gabriel Law
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« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2017, 12:28:23 pm »

My Lyman 457193 casts bullets from approximately 1:30 alloy at 418 gr.  I'm still in the process of working out accurate loads, but have had some success with 28 gr. AA 5744...thank you PJ!
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