Author Topic: Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS  (Read 5322 times)

Offline OD#3

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 278
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS
« on: October 24, 2016, 01:18:03 PM »
I was disappointed to discover that my Miroku '73 was engineered to have a shorter lever throw than the originals, thus making it illegal for use in NCOWS--the only cowboy action shooting organization that appealed to me.  And it got me to thinking; with all the outfits making short link and super-short link systems for Ubertis (and one even makes a super-short link for Miroku), would there be any business for them in making an aftermarket "long link" system for Miroku '73's so that they would be legal in NCOWS?

Offline Major 2

  • "Still running against the wind"
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 15832
  • NCOWS #: 3032
  • GAF #: 785
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 415
Re: Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2016, 01:32:58 PM »
No  :) ....  a whole lot of design, development & Fabrication $$$$$$ ...for most likely just one guy  :-\
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Yuma Kid

  • NCOWS Editor (The Shootist Magazine)
  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 2391
  • John "Yuma Kid" Irons
  • SASS #: 31302
  • NCOWS #: L129
  • GAF #: 767
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 25
Re: Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 07:48:13 PM »
OD,
Sad to say, I don't think NCOWS is a large enough group to influence Winchester to go to the trouble of re-engineering their '73' rifle.  Same thing when Smith & Wesson re-introduced their Schofield revolvers with a transfer bar safety system.
Yuma
Keep Yer Powder Dry!

NCOWS #L129,  G.A.F. # 767, SASS #31302, NRA Life Endowment, Lancaster County Bounty Collection Agentcy #29

Advertising

  • Guest
Re: Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS
« Reply #3 on: Today at 10:23:24 AM »

Offline OD#3

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 278
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2016, 11:45:22 PM »
I wouldn't expect Winchester to do anything at all.  But outfits like Pioneer gun works had Miroku competition parts out pretty quickly.   A lightweight firing pin extension appeared almost immediately, followed by super short stroke kits and aluminum carriers.  Perhaps there isn't enough room in a Miroku frame to accommodate a longer throw; I never compared that aspect with my Uberti before selling the Uberti.  I do remember some slight frame contour differences inside.  But if there's room, replacement links would be all that's necessary at a minimum; one could shorten the lifter arm shelf himself to get it to time correctly.  But I suppose NCOWS isn't big enough to attract that kind of product being brought to market.  The gun mod market is all about increasing one's edge over the competition with shorter lever throws for the SASS crowd.  It was even persuasive enough to cause Winchester's Miroku '73 to come short-stroked from the factory.  Heck, I wasn't even surprised to finally see "short stroke" revolvers on the market now.  Too bad.  I was really excited when Winchester resurrected the '73, and I knew the quality from Miroku would be top-notch (which it is).  Shame the SASS influence caused them to re-engineer the lever throw.

Offline Major 2

  • "Still running against the wind"
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 15832
  • NCOWS #: 3032
  • GAF #: 785
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 415
Re: Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2016, 06:29:23 AM »
SASS influence caused them to re-engineer the lever throw , I highly question that  :-\

I'd suggest, it's more in line with efficiency , their internal firing pin safety , and an update in design....

that it may have been plus for SASS and worthy from a advertising point of view, to bullet point , SURE  :) ....
Miroku /Winchester/ Browning , would not hinge earnings on possible SASS sales alone.

The appeal of a Winchester ( by name licensing, if not original maker ) has to be way broader, or they would not gamble profits.
Has it been then ?  :-\   time will tell.

S&W  has been mentioned ,  Smith & Wesson re-introduced their Schofield revolvers, turned out it was a huge bath and discontinued.

 Can't say about Miroku /Winchester ( I hope they do very well ) , but it won't be with SASS sales alone.

when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Cliff Fendley

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3697
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 360
Re: Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2016, 09:26:48 PM »
It's not really short stroked enough for serious SASS competitors so I'm not sure that was their intention. I think they decided to cash in on some of the profits of modern 73 replicas and as with many modern replicas they re engineered the action.

Besides short stroke kits for the Miroku there are parts to replace the ugly new fangled bolt they decided to over engineer.

Even the Uberti action isn't an exact copy of an original although they are closer than they used to be and they do operate like an original with the correct lever throw.

Uberti does not have the same length of pull as an original but the Miroku does.

So actually nobody makes an exact replica but for the most part people are larger today so the Uberti probably feels closest to what an original would have to an average size person in 1873.

If someone would come up with a way of getting the Miroku more in line with the lever throw I would be all for it. I'd like to see more options.
http://www.fendleyknives.com/

NCOWS 3345  RATS 576 NRA Life member

Johnson County Rangers

Offline OklaTom

  • NCOWS Judge, NCOWS Life 172, GAF 719, SASS 73114, NRA Life, TSRA, Berger Sharp Shooters, Blue River Regulators, Kansas Vigilance Committee
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2570
  • Bryan Buck
    • 3B Shooting Supply
  • SASS #: 73114
  • NCOWS #: L-172
  • GAF #: 719
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 60
Re: Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2016, 06:47:42 PM »
I would also point out that all of them are replicas.  Winchester did not "resurrect the 73", rather the Olin Corporation licensed the name to Browning Arms, who then contracts with Miroku in Japan to manufacture the rifle (as other "Winchesters" are done).  Browning then imports them.  As for who did the design work to update the design, I have no clue if it was Browning or Miroku.  But the fact remains, even though it says Winchester on the barrel, it is another foreign import replica, with its own foibles and reworks.

Cliff states
Quote
Uberti does not have the same length of pull as an original but the Miroku does.

I, as part of the Authenticity Committee, did not measure the length of pull of the Miroku.  However, I think his statement about the Uberti may not be entirely correct.  All of my Uberti rifles have the same length of pull.  All of my Uberti carbines have the same length of pull.  A handy outcome of using CNC to cut the stocks.  However, my original 1873 Sporting Rifle, 32 WCF, has less than 1/8" difference from my Uberti rifles in the length of pull.  So I suspect that some varied more than others in the hand fitting of stocks.
"I druther have a pocket full of rocks than an empty gun..."

OklaTom@att.net

Offline Cliff Fendley

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3697
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 360
Re: Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2016, 09:55:52 PM »
I would also point out that all of them are replicas.  Winchester did not "resurrect the 73", rather the Olin Corporation licensed the name to Browning Arms, who then contracts with Miroku in Japan to manufacture the rifle (as other "Winchesters" are done).  Browning then imports them.  As for who did the design work to update the design, I have no clue if it was Browning or Miroku.  But the fact remains, even though it says Winchester on the barrel, it is another foreign import replica, with its own foibles and reworks.

Cliff states
I, as part of the Authenticity Committee, did not measure the length of pull of the Miroku.  However, I think his statement about the Uberti may not be entirely correct.  All of my Uberti rifles have the same length of pull.  All of my Uberti carbines have the same length of pull.  A handy outcome of using CNC to cut the stocks.  However, my original 1873 Sporting Rifle, 32 WCF, has less than 1/8" difference from my Uberti rifles in the length of pull.  So I suspect that some varied more than others in the hand fitting of stocks.

My statement is correct but you are also correct.

After this discovery at the Eastern Regional I compared several Ubertis to four different original 73's that vary from first and third models.

You are correct that they vary slightly in length (Winchester not Uberti). The longest one I compared is only about an 1/8 of an inch shorter. Two are at least 3/8 of an inch shorter than the Uberti. The other one is about a 1/4 inch shorter than the Uberti. So it appears going by the average of the ones I compared all are shorter to a some extent than Ubertis but as I mentioned before this isn't a big deal since folks are larger today.

Also the difference in length is in the butt stock itself, the receiver tangs are pretty much an exact length of originals.

Another thing I forgot to mention which actually probably makes a larger difference in the feel of handling, during my comparison I noticed the original 73 Winchesters all have approximately 1/2 inch more drop at the heel than the Uberti 73. I wish I had thought to look at that closer when comparing the Miroku.

http://www.fendleyknives.com/

NCOWS 3345  RATS 576 NRA Life member

Johnson County Rangers

Offline John William McCandles

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 524
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Making a Miroku legal for NCOWS
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2016, 05:23:57 AM »
Byran, I sent the pictures that Sierra Sue and Cliff took of the Uberti and Miroku copies with an original to BushWhacker.

JW
NCOWS #1792
SASS #963
STORM #59
Johnson County Rangers
The Old West Players
Alpine Outlaws (Inactive)
NRA Life
NAHC Life
U.S. Navy Submarine Service Retired

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk

© 1995 - 2023 CAScity.com