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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  USFA CSS (Moderator: Capt. John Fitzgerald)  |  Topic: point of aim 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: point of aim  (Read 4843 times)
LonesomePigeon
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« on: October 18, 2016, 10:16:54 am »


Do the USA made USFA's usually shoot to point of aim?

Also, I have heard you can turn the barrel but wouldn't that leave the front sight canted?
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Kent Shootwell
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Got whiskey, will stumble.


« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2016, 10:49:23 am »

My two US pistols both shot close to the sights. In my hand a bit high but center and in another fellows hand high and right by a couple of inches. Same gun same load. Turning the barrel fixes the windage by very small amount of twist not noticeable to most.
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2016, 04:26:09 pm »

Depends entirely on the specific load and the specific shooter.  My usual quick answer is ..... No.

Coffinmaker
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Cholla Hill Tirador
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2016, 04:58:21 am »

 I had a 5 1/2" USFA in 45 Colt that shot perfectly to the sights so long as the bullet was in the 250 gr. range and velocity around 850-900 fps. But the heavier bullets I wanted to use for hunting shot WAY too high, so down the road my beautiful revolver went.  Cry

 CHT
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LonesomePigeon
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2016, 10:07:15 am »

Actually I'm not too concerned with elevation but I want a gun that doesn't shoot to the right or left. All my cap n' ball guns except one, a Pietta Remington Navy, shoot either right or left. Before I buy a cartridge gun I want to find out which ones are most likely to not shoot to the side. I was thinking of a China Camp because they are supposed to be regulated at the factory but I think they only made them in nickel? I really like the blue and color case finish a lot better.
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GaryG
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2016, 02:00:18 pm »

All the China Camps were done in the white.  USA called the finish "Silver Steel".    Standard steel with no finish other than a high polish
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yahoody
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 10:57:24 am »

"Do the USA made USFA's usually shoot to point of aim?"

Depend on what you consider "usually".  I've found the USFA guns are  many more times likely to shoot point of aim (or closer too) than the current 3rd Gen Colts.   Obviously the loads used can/will change that.   Rodeos' have been good for me as have the majority of blue and cased guns.  At one time or another I have shot 16 of them a lot to come up with that opinion.  And many more Colts to make the comparison.
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LonesomePigeon
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2016, 03:41:56 pm »

Thanks yahoody. That's good to know. Hopefully between now and the end of January I will find something.
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Scattered Thumbs
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2016, 04:10:32 pm »

Depends entirely on the specific load and the specific shooter.  My usual quick answer is ..... No.

Coffinmaker

What he said.
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LonesomePigeon
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2016, 08:51:11 pm »

I am finding with my Uberti 1851 Navy when I shoot from a rest and pull the trigger with just the tip of my finger it usually hits an inch or two to the right, depnding upon the load and sight picture I use it can be from an inch low to a couple inches high. I consider this the actual point of impact because I feel I am minimizing the influence the shooter has on the gun. Now if I shoot offhand and wrap my finger around the trigger it shoots pretty much dead center for windage and from two to six inches high depending upon the load. If I could get an SAA that shoots like this 1851 Navy I would be pretty happy. But there are other guns that just do not shoot to point of aim no matter what you do, like my Centaure 1860 Army that shoots about a foot to the right at 15 yards. Holding it a different way just does not help enough. I hope I don't get an SAA like that.
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yahoody
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2016, 09:34:23 pm »

This is not an uncommon result with any of the Rodeos I've owned in 38 and 45.  Using just typical factory ammo.



The target above is one reason so many think, 38 Special is "special".  24 rounds of 125 gr flat nose bullets @ 875fps from a sand bag rest at 20 yards, shooting POINT of AIM,  out of this Long Hunter smithed, 5.5" USFA, Rodeo.  I have a pair of USFA 32-20s that will do much better and  several .45s that are every bit as good as any of these and one in particular that is simply spectacular.  You might get a lemon from USFA (I've had two total) but chances even a Rodeo will shoot better than most owners.  If you stack bullet upon bullet at 10 yards @ POA I figure you have a damn good SAA.

Check out this .45's targets Smiley





Three cut cards with 3 consecutive shots at a distance where my eyes can barely see a card's edge in bright sunlight.  A feat I had never done before with a SAA.  Sure you have to be able to shoot.  But first you have to have a gun that is up to the task.  Many/most SAAs, no matter who made them, simply are not up to the task.

Here is a typical 3rd Gen Colt test target (I've done losts of them) before and after smithing and turning the barrel....in general they (Colt's) suck by comparison without a little or a lot of work to get them to shoot POA.



Here is  the 2nd gun in that pair which wasn't any better.  The before and after shots make it clear enough what a Colt is capable of and how they generally arrive from the Colt's factory.



Also worth noting in the last picture there are targets from 2 different bullet weights and 3 different bullets shapes  pictured.  255 round nose, 255 SWC and a 200 rounds nose.  Even @ 10 yards you can see some difference in POA/POI.  But  it isn't anywhere near as drastic as some would have you believe.  Same in 9mm, 38 Special, 44 Special, 10mm, .40 and 45acp as well.  Different bullet weights generally just string the rounds vertically...not as drastic in the changes for windage in my experience.   The extemes like a 90gr 9mm and a 147gr 9mm will have a bigger difference in POA/POI.  Just as a 165 and a 255 in .45 Colt will give you a big change on  POA/POI.   If you aren't shooting bullseye matches on paper or small game it is likely not to matter too much.  20" gong in SASS at 15 yards isn't likely to be missed even with the worst SSA I have seen if the sights were on target when the trigger was pulled Wink

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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2016, 11:06:26 pm »

Sell the Centaur and get another '51.  There.  That was easy wasn't it.

Although, there are oddities.  I can't shoot a Ruger.  Period.  Nada.  When I were a tad younger and still fast enough to chase the brass ring, I built myself 6, yes SIX different sets of Rugers (Glutton for punishment).  Just sprayed bullets.  Nothing I tried worked.  Off a sand bag (wrists rested) I could cut a fine cloverleaf.  Standing on my hind legs, bullets went everywhere.   I finally cut my loses and just went back to Colt pattern guns.

Unfortunately, some guns come out of the factory, having been assembled by a Moron.  Ill fitted, constricted barrel.  Bad barrel, there is a laundry list.  Most of that can be corrected if you want to spend the money on it.  Chances your Centaur has a serious alignment problem between the frame and the Arbor.  Hang it on the wall.

Nothing.  Absolutely nothing shoots like an 1851 or and Open Top when properly set up.  The operative is "Properly Set Up."  I don't really understand why, ALL the manufacturers send guns out the door that should be melted back down.  OK, it's bottom line.  Stupid.

Coffinmaker

PS:  Returning to the original question.  Same answer.  NO.  Results normally depend on the load and the shooter.  As your results with your '51 demonstrate.
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LonesomePigeon
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2016, 11:42:58 pm »

Thanks for the bevy of info yahoody. The Rodeo .38 special target is impressive and so are the cut cards. It's evident USFA made some quality guns. Those Colt's are absolutely drool worthy too! I found an article by Mike Venturino in which he says "And that is that USFA is producing the finest single action revolvers being made in the world today."
http://gunsmagazine.com/web-extra-usfa-sixguns/
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hanover67
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2016, 12:27:13 am »

I only have one USFA, a 4 3/4" .44 Special Single Action. It shoots about 6 - 8" left at 15 yards, but so do all of my fixed sight guns. I have small hands so I'm sort of on the right side of the grips and the gun recoils to the left. I can compensate some by  turning my wrist down and concentrating on keeping my right arm straight behind the gun, but it is an uncomfortable way to hold it.  I do better with adjustable sights cranked way over to the right.  Still, I wouldn't trade or sell that .44.
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yahoody
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2016, 11:19:06 am »

[quote =hanover67]
I only have one USFA, a 4 3/4" .44 Special Single Action. It shoots about 6 - 8" left at 15 yards, but so do all of my fixed sight guns.... I do better with adjustable sights cranked way over to the right.[/quote]

Not uncommon.  At least you know you are consistent, as are the guns.     
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"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  USFA CSS (Moderator: Capt. John Fitzgerald)  |  Topic: point of aim « previous next »
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