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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  Gun Reviews (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Arcey)  |  Topic: Capt. Schaeffer Custom Colt Replica - - PART DEUX - - or DUCX?? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Capt. Schaeffer Custom Colt Replica - - PART DEUX - - or DUCX??  (Read 3642 times)
Coffinmaker
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« on: August 29, 2016, 05:49:29 pm »


What we have here is a failure to comm -- Ah Wrong line.  Different movie.  What we have here are Replicas of a 19th Century Custom Colt 1851.  A presentation piece if you will.  This offering from Pietta generated the most excitement the CAS community has seen in several (many) years.  The artistry in steel does not disappoint.  BUT:  What about after you get it out of the box, wipe off the goo and then wipe off the drool.  I have a pair, and I drool every time I pick them up. 

So the question begs, what did they need.  They are Pietta.  They needed the usual preparation to be competitive CAS percussion guns.
Just not as much of it (preparation)

Both guns needed to have the Barrel/Cylinder gap opened several Thou.  About three Thou.
I gave both guns a shallow 11 Degree forcing cone, a light chamfer then polished the breach end of the barrel.
Both cylinders needed a light polish on the cylinder face to smooth off the machine marks
I then fit the wedges.  Not a whole lot of fitting

The bolts fit the cylinder notches.  VERY tightly.  Too tight.  I relieved the mating surface of the bolt to give a better (looser) fit.
Polished the frame side of the Bolt for smoothness and the bottom of the bolt for smooth interface with the T/B Spring
Polished the frame side of the Hand and de-burred the OEM hand spring and polished the contact surface of the spring.  I did not feel the need to replace these Hand Springs with Coil Spring and Plunger.  I feel the OEM spring is going to last.  And last.  And last.  And ........
The hammer channels were a mite rough and a mite tight in spots with some small roughness down in the frame.  I opened up the tight spots and polished the hammer channels
I made and installed Cap Rakes in both guns, Modified the Hammer for Cap Rake.
Tossed the OEM Main Springs and replaced Them with Lee's Gunsmithing Gunfighter Springs
Polished the contact pads on the Trigger/Bolt Springs
Replaced the OEM nipples with SliXshot nipples
Installed action overtravel stops
Did not replace the front sights.  Would have to cut into the engraving.  Not yet.
Cleaned all the yucky black goo out of the guns.  Icky
Went out on the back porch and busted some caps.  BANG!!

These guns are now SWEET!!  Smooth and light with very positive, solid lockup.  They go to their first match this weekend.  I'm excited.
If one does not want to go thru all of the above and your only going to play with them occasionally, First and foremost, fit the bolt to the cylinder, polish up the hammer channel, polish up trigger/bolt spring and hand spring contacts and trash the OEM Main Springs for aftermarket. 

The overall is Wonderful.  Along with the Pietta Marshal, which is also polished and heat treated, they are collectively the best made percussion guns on the market.  If your not on the list at EMF, get on the list.  These are excellent guns.

Coffinmaker

PS:  I probably forgot something.  OOPS.  Just ask.
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45 Dragoon
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2016, 07:12:51 pm »

Ooooo,  ooooo, ooooo,  .   .  .  .  .   you forgot timing !!!! I know ya set the timing !! !

Yap!!  Sounds like a day inna shop!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2016, 08:22:40 pm »

NOoooooooooo  NOooooooooooo  NOooooooooo ............. Didn't forget at all .......... I always got to the fridge when the Ale got COLD!!

Surprisingly,  These guns were perfectly timed out of the box.  Leading edge of the bolt pop'd up into the lead just before the trailing edge of the Cylinder notch ........... Then ...... Snap right home.  No adjustment needed.  These guns just lock up solid like a bank vault.

This set of guns is just INCREADABLE!!  I'm not taking a second set of ANYTHING to this weekend's match (you really believe that ... right??  Wink)

Coffinmaker

As they did with the Marshal Guns, Pietta belted this one out of the park!!  Grin
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Crow Choker
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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2016, 10:12:50 pm »

So, what exactly was Pietta's Marshall gun. Either back when they were out I didn't pay attention or have forgotten. I did go on Pietta's website and they had some photo's with no ID explanation of some special series guns. Two of the photo's showed what appeared to be stainless steel 1851 body styles, but the cylinders were fluted. One photo had what appeared to be a 7-8" barrel and the other looked to be around a 5 1/2", both barrels octagonal. Both guns had engraving on the frames and a little on the barrels. Am I close to these being the Marshall guns? Were they 36 or 44 caliber, what was the approx. year of their issuance? Just curious and need to be enlightened. Never see any for sale on any of the forums or places like Gunbroker.
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Darksider-1911 Shooter-BOLD Chambers-RATS-SCORRS-STORM-1860 Henry(1866)-Colt Handgun Lover an' Fan-NRA-"RiverRat"-Conservative American Patriot and Former Keeper & Enforcer of the Law an' Proud of Being Both! >oo
45 Dragoon
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2016, 12:02:34 am »

Well that definitely makes things a little easier.


Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
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Major 2
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2016, 06:14:50 am »

So, what exactly was Pietta's Marshall gun. Either back when they were out I didn't pay attention or have forgotten. I did go on Pietta's website and they had some photo's with no ID explanation of some special series guns. Two of the photo's showed what appeared to be stainless steel 1851 body styles, but the cylinders were fluted. One photo had what appeared to be a 7-8" barrel and the other looked to be around a 5 1/2", both barrels octagonal. Both guns had engraving on the frames and a little on the barrels. Am I close to these being the Marshall guns? Were they 36 or 44 caliber, what was the approx. year of their issuance? Just curious and need to be enlightened. Never see any for sale on any of the forums or places like Gunbroker.

"didn't pay attention "   Wink

there is one in classified's right now ... taint mine and no dog in the fight

these would be the the good coffinmakers appropriately abbreviated versions... also posted several times in other threads
you have followed  Wink   



* Coffinmakers 51 Sherriff Belly Guns.jpg (105.8 KB, 512x384 - viewed 192 times.)

* Mike 51 Snubbies (624x640).jpg (165.8 KB, 624x640 - viewed 174 times.)
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Crow Choker
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2016, 08:54:58 am »

"didn't pay attention "   Wink

there is one in classified's right now ... taint mine and no dog in the fight

these would be the the good coffinmakers appropriately abbreviated versions... also posted several times in other threads
you have followed  Wink   


 

Well I be 'dipped'!! I hadn't seen that one, of course I also see it was listed on the 26th and I don't believe I've viewed anything here in the classified since around mid August. I did check on Gunbroker last night after I posted and "Low and Behold", there was one listed for sale. I check on GB blackpowder section occasionally, but don't scour it, I'll just type it searches for what I'm interested in.

 I have seen some of Cabela's offerings over the years, but haven't paid much attention to them. Don't get to their stores that much, have other outlets I order from or go to and buy. When I have been in Cabela's I haven't been real impressed with their blackpowder department. Just stock things I already have and things I don't need, they're over priced also IMO. I've looked at some of their Pietta guns and some of them were of poor quality and workmanship. An old rumor that once went around was that Cabela's had a contract with Pietta to make some of the normal models at cheaper prices (some of what I saw lead truth to that) and that Pietta made models with 'made up names' to sell. I've seen that. Possibly why I didn't pay attention is due to the fact that when I saw something advertised or written about with some historical name added to it (whether fact or fiction), I just glossed over it, didn't pay attention, or noted them and moved on to other interests. I will say I have had one in the past and presently have one is Pietta's 1851 Navy's in 44 caliber. Not true to caliber for the gun, but I like the Navy model, but prefer the 44 caliber. Love that gun, good shooter, even though many turn their noses up at them because they're not "period correct". Pietta does make good guns, not saying that, just that some of their lower quality pieces that are made to sell cheap aren't up to the quality of the rest of what they have. I've never seen that aspect with Uberti.

Enjoyed your pictures, but I have seen them when you posted on the Darkside. Ignored them and the posts at first, not that what you and others had written and posted wasn't good, but it goes back to reading what I'm interested in and short blackpowder percussion belly guns "ain't" one of them. Sorry. I prefer hoglegs with at least a 5 1/2" barrel if not 6-8". Your belly guns are interesting, would like to shoot one of them sometime, just for 'funsies', but I guess the long barrel's are more appealing to me. May have to 'whack a surly bartender' someday. But hey Major, you and Coffinmaker have some nice lookin guns 'thar'. I went on EMF's and Pietta's websites and they have no mention about your new bellyguns. Did find some interesting reading about Capt. Schaeffer who I had heard of by name before but was ignorant of who he was. See now, your posts enlightened me to a historical figure I didn't really know about. Well, I see my fingers have gotten the best of me again, typed another too long 'War and Peace' length  post. You guys take care and look forward to readin more of your reports and posts. Take care. Crow Choker  Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Darksider-1911 Shooter-BOLD Chambers-RATS-SCORRS-STORM-1860 Henry(1866)-Colt Handgun Lover an' Fan-NRA-"RiverRat"-Conservative American Patriot and Former Keeper & Enforcer of the Law an' Proud of Being Both! >oo
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2016, 02:46:02 pm »

OK then...we get it ....you like long barrels ...really ... we get it  Wink

I'm not into Navy's  in 44..... 36 cal.  Yes.... and there was even one in 40 cal.  look it up in the NRA Collection in Springfield Mo.

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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2016, 02:55:20 pm »

Well ....... just to continue drifting a little bit.  Just 'cause I have a penchant for drifting.  And playing with accurate information.  I cannot and will not suggest anyone pay a visit to Pietta's web site.  Unless there has been very recent activity I haven't seen, their web site has
NOT been updated since 2008.  Included are models of guns that have NEVER been available on this side of the pond.  Some of which make me drool, but have never been offered here.

Pietta has alway played fast and loose with Histerical accuracy.  With just a couple of exceptions, they (Pietta) have concentrated on simplified production rather than an accurate reproduction.  Initially, Pietta guns were a mite lacking in the quality department.  In the last lustrum or so, Pietta quality has really been improved.  Improved to the point I would rather build Percussion Guns for CAS play on Pietta frames.  Pietta builds EVERYTHING from an 1851 frame.  Pietta's 1862 is simply an 1851 with fluted cylinder and 1860 pattern barrel.  The original 1862 was in fact an itty bitty thing.  5 shot.  Urk.

The Pietta Marshal was essentially their FLAGSHIP.  Offered as a Cabelas exclusive for most of it's retail life.  Then, lately, Cabelas has cut WAY back on their Percussion offerings.  To dispel old wives tales, Pietta did NOT have an agreement with Cabelas to build "cheaper" guns.  Cabelas just sold their percussion guns closer to cost.  Very close to cost.  It's almost the same as the old wives tail Cimarron had Uberti build their guns to higher standards.  If you consider the manufacturing process, neither can happen.  Neither Pietta nor Uberti can change their machines to build for a specific importer.  The only differences in Cimarron guns from Taylor's guns are the roll marks and date stamps.  Pietta's standardization has resulted in a better price point and ALL the lock works are interchangeable through their line.  Makes getting repair and replacement parts sooooooo easy.  Plus, the interchangeability means we who play and mix and match our own parts to make really cool "never never" combinations.  After all, when playing a game, histeracial accuracy isn't what really counts.  What really counts is how it SHOOTS!!  

Almost forgot.  The Pietta Marshal and this new 1851 are made entirely differently than Pietta's "other" guns.  Better machining, high polish, laser engraving and heat treated everything.  Very tough guns.

Coffinmaker

PS:  A novelette, "War and Piece" to follow  
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Crow Choker
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2016, 04:32:02 pm »

OK then...we get it ....you like long barrels ...really ... we get it  Wink

I'm not into Navy's  in 44..... 36 cal.  Yes.... and there was even one in 40 cal.  look it up in the NRA Collection in Springfield Mo.


Well Major, I guess from the prolific number of posts you've made regarding Ol' Capt. Schaeffer's gun on this forum you're into short barrel so called "belly guns", ya we get that to, we really do. Brother-- ya could have responded by not being so smart about it. Oh well. I forgive ya. Smiley Smiley

Thanks for the info Coffinmaker. I'll agree with ya on what Pietta guns I've seen in the last years or so. My '51 Navy 44 caliber has good timing and workmanship. Some of the Pietta's I saw in Cabela's a number of years ago led me to think of the tale I previously penned. Saw other examples in other stores similar to Cabela's, known nationwide. Cimarron used to have written in their adverts that they paid extra for extra workmanship and action smoothing, was told to me over the phone also when I questioned the policy before I bought a OT. I brought it up to them when I bought my first Open Top in 08 that had bad fitting and a less than desirable rear sight. Wrote letter to Mike Harvey and talked with sales rep over phone pointing that out when I desired to return Open Top for another. They balked at first, but did exchange it. I've come to see what you say about the whole bunch of them being 'kit guns' after having to work on them, getting them into workin the way they're suppose to work--Pietta/Uberti, both guilty as charged.

The playing 'loose' with models, adding a bigger caliber to a gun, preceding the gun model with some name fact or fiction, doesn't bother me. I just like shootin percussion, conversion type, and 73 frame guns, esp shooting black powder through the ones capable even being able to handle smokeless powders. Lookin at the Pietta Marshall looks like something I would enjoy addin to my stable of Colts and Remingtons, maybe someday I'll run across one at a gun show and snap it up. They're nice lookin pieces, not overly engraved, nice lookin grips. Ya take care. You too Major. Crow Choker
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Darksider-1911 Shooter-BOLD Chambers-RATS-SCORRS-STORM-1860 Henry(1866)-Colt Handgun Lover an' Fan-NRA-"RiverRat"-Conservative American Patriot and Former Keeper & Enforcer of the Law an' Proud of Being Both! >oo
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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2016, 05:44:11 pm »

Aw snap ! 

Short ones,  longer ones I'm liking them all ...not asking any forgiveness for that.

The OP's thread is about  the Schaeffer  Wink

my point,  was to point you toward the "Pietta's Marshall gun" you asked about .... Smiley

later....
 
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Crow Choker
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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2016, 06:11:10 pm »

Aw, yer gentleman and a scholar Major-don't know in what order, but yer one fer sure. Anyway, would maybe check out the Marshall on this forum or Gunbroker, but I just bought a M1 Garand and it was for a garand, plus a tad more. Hate to push my good fortunes with Famous Shoes, a/k/a as the Mrs. Thanks for the info. CC
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Darksider-1911 Shooter-BOLD Chambers-RATS-SCORRS-STORM-1860 Henry(1866)-Colt Handgun Lover an' Fan-NRA-"RiverRat"-Conservative American Patriot and Former Keeper & Enforcer of the Law an' Proud of Being Both! >oo
Coffinmaker
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2016, 07:15:47 pm »

Err
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Cemetery
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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2017, 08:00:26 pm »


Installed action overtravel stops


What is this?

 Huh
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God forgives, I don't........
Coffinmaker
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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2017, 08:11:23 pm »

Hi Cemetery!!

When you draw the hammer back on an SA or SAA, often, after the trigger sets and the bolt rises and everything locks up tight, the Hammer continues to travel back toward the backstop.  In many cases, that "over-travel" is a lot. 

While the hammer is traveling to the rear, it is rotating the hand "UP" applying pressure on the star and on the Bolt/Bolt Notches in the cylinder.  Not good.  An "Over-Travel" stop prevents the continued movement of the hammer after everything locks up.  Actually, everything in the action comes to a stop at the same time. 

I do this surgical procedure by installing a set screw in the Trigger Guard Frame under the Main Spring and adjusting it "just right."  Questions??

Coffinmaker
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2017, 03:44:22 pm »

Into The
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  Gun Reviews (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Arcey)  |  Topic: Capt. Schaeffer Custom Colt Replica - - PART DEUX - - or DUCX?? « previous next »
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