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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  RATS (Moderator: Mustang Gregg)  |  Topic: Does your Vaquero tend to shoot low? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Does your Vaquero tend to shoot low?  (Read 1075 times)
Doug.38PR
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« on: July 19, 2018, 06:13:20 pm »


In lining up the sight even with the rear, my vaquero always seems to shoot a few inches low.    This is true whether iím shooting 200 or 250 gr lead bullets.  Smokeless or BP sub
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 09:58:38 pm »


I have never seen a new unmolested Ruger shoot anything but a little low.  Ruger sights are normally made that was deliberately.  Allowing the competitor/shooter to alter the front sight to the individuals "sweet spot."

Before you even think about altering that front sight, check and correct your cylinder throats.  First thing out of the box.  Check and fix the throats.
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2018, 09:56:47 am »

I have never seen a new unmolested Ruger shoot anything but a little low.  Ruger sights are normally made that was deliberately.  Allowing the competitor/shooter to alter the front sight to the individuals "sweet spot."

Before you even think about altering that front sight, check and correct your cylinder throats.  First thing out of the box.  Check and fix the throats.

Fix the cylinder throats?   I've been shooting this gun for 5 years now off and on.  Is there something wrong with the throats? 
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2018, 01:53:17 pm »


Um .... Ah ..... YES!!  I worked on a LOT of Rugers.  Lots of a Lot.  I can count on one hand the number of guns that came into the shop with correct cylinder throats.  Regardless of cartridge, the throats were/are undersize to the bore.

Uniformly, the bore of a .45 Ruger is .451 as the nominal size.  Most always .451   The cylinder throats on the other hand, normally come in at .448 or .449   Bad Ju Ju there.  There are three results from this error.  Result number one, depending on the all used for bullets is leading.  Usually seen at the forcing cone and for the first 2 inches of the bore.  Result number two is excess felt recoil as the bullet stopping at the throat for a millisecond raises chamber pressure.  Result number three is lousy accuracy.  The bullet more or less just rattles down the bore, bouncing around and scraping off some lead.

Step one.  Slug your bore and see what you have.  If you have a correct 451 bore, the throat should be .4515 or .452.  To check your throats, drop a bullet known to be .451 into the cylinder from the chamber end.  If it takes more than a light tap from a pencil to go thru the throat, you have a problem.  Throats should be reamed to match bore.  Ruger is actually Famous for undersize throats.
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Lumpy Grits
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2018, 02:18:08 pm »

At what distance are you shooting?
May I suggest, that you have the POI confirmed buy a known good shooter.
Reloads or factory?
Yes-I had to file some off the front sights of both of my 44's I use in SASS.
LG
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Trailrider
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2018, 06:13:17 pm »

Ruger has had (at least in the past) of having the Vaquero throats undersized, in spite of the diameter of the barrel.  For example, the Old Model Vaqueros in .44-40 use(d) .429" groove diameter barrels, same as for their .44 Magnums. But the .44-40 cylinders were mostly .425"! It took awhile to get the chambers sized large and uniform enough to take .44-40 cartridges with .430" bullets, period. Should I have had the throats of my guns reamed out? Logic would say so. But I found that if I used hardcast (BHN 17-22) commercial bullets of .430" diameter, the slugs apparently squeeze down going through the throats, but due to the residual stresses in the bullet metal, they will re-expand in the forcing cone.  I get excellent accuracy (1-5/8" groups) at 25 yds, on the bench, which is certainly good enough for CAS. I would NEVER think of shooting jacketed bullets through these tight throats, but, as I have interchangeable .44 Magnum cylinders for each of my CAS match guns, if I ever wanted to take them hunting, I would use the Maggie cylinders.
This is not to say that you should not CONSIDER having your .45 throats reamed out, but I can't be dogmatic about it.

As to the fixed sight Rugers shooting low, that is done intentionally so you can file the front blade down ONCE YOU HAVE DECIDED ON THE LOAD YOU WANT TO USE!
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2018, 02:06:04 pm »

Um .... Ah ..... YES!!  I worked on a LOT of Rugers.  Lots of a Lot.  I can count on one hand the number of guns that came into the shop with correct cylinder throats.  Regardless of cartridge, the throats were/are undersize to the bore.

Uniformly, the bore of a .45 Ruger is .451 as the nominal size.  Most always .451   The cylinder throats on the other hand, normally come in at .448 or .449   Bad Ju Ju there.  There are three results from this error.  Result number one, depending on the all used for bullets is leading.  Usually seen at the forcing cone and for the first 2 inches of the bore.  Result number two is excess felt recoil as the bullet stopping at the throat for a millisecond raises chamber pressure.  Result number three is lousy accuracy.  The bullet more or less just rattles down the bore, bouncing around and scraping off some lead.

Step one.  Slug your bore and see what you have.  If you have a correct 451 bore, the throat should be .4515 or .452.  To check your throats, drop a bullet known to be .451 into the cylinder from the chamber end.  If it takes more than a light tap from a pencil to go thru the throat, you have a problem.  Throats should be reamed to match bore.  Ruger is actually Famous for undersize throats.

Holy crap!   I just put a Speer LSWC 250 bullet into my cylinder and i could not push it put at the throat.  It wasnít even thinking about budging as I pushed on it with the cylinder pin.  Manual Speer # lists it as .452.   My caliper says the same,  Iíve been shooting these pretty frequently through my ruger.  Even the force cone is tight

EDIT:  i just tried the same thing with a .451 FMJ 230 gr bullet.  Same results.

No wonder those fully loaded Pyrodex rounds felt like shooting a .44 Magnum in recoil (exaggerating to make a point)

So now what?  Do I call Ruger, take the gun to local gunsmith, send it off to the other side of the planet to Wild Bill Best Pistolerosmith in Tumbleweed Montana thatís been modifying guns for 100 years? (And wonít see the gun until next year and hope it comes back safe and...not in factory condition)
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2018, 02:10:47 pm »

At what distance are you shooting?
May I suggest, that you have the POI confirmed buy a known good shooter.
Reloads or factory?
Yes-I had to file some off the front sights of both of my 44's I use in SASS.
LG

About 10 yards.  Reloads.   Using Unique, Trailboss, American Pioneer ir Pyrodex.  200-250 gr LSWC Speer bullets
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Doug.38PR
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2018, 02:22:27 pm »

Who handles this tight thoat problem?   Local gunsmith or ship off to Ruger for 3 months?
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Major 2
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2018, 02:42:49 pm »

You could try Preparation H as your Bullet lube  Grin
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