Repairing Broken Hand Springs

[Fingers McGee]

Broken flat hand springs seem to occur frequently in Colt-type revolvers.   My Good friend J-Bar has made a video showing how to repair a broken hand spring with wire springs. 

Fingers

" Here's hoping you will find it interesting, and perhaps encourage you to develop the idea further. The wire hand spring is not as elegant as some other approaches, but it is quick and easy to Video on Replacing Flat Hand Spring with a Wire Spring."

[hellgate]

Beats hell out of using a bobby pin like I usually do and saves the original fitted hand too.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Broken flat hand springs seem to occur frequently in Colt-type revolvers...

Define "frequently" as I have only had two Colt style ones break in my life and one Rem. hand spring. Personally, I don't think it's so much the design and moreso the poor Italian spring quality. As well, it helps to deburr the hand channel and liberally use grease therein afterward. Of course, it may all have been luck.  

[Advertising]

[hellgate]

FCK,
You've had good luck. I've probably installed 4 or 5 bobby pin hand springs. So far, none of them have rebroken. I've also owned 38 different 36 & 44 cal C&Bs. I've had a couple break during matches but I've gotten to where I just flip the barrel down to shake the hand forward and finish the stage. I never take less that two spares to a match and sometimes 3. I had two break on one two day match. They were old ASMs bought brand new and lasted about 100 rds before breaking. I agree that the quality of the springs leaves much to be desired.

[Fingers McGee]

Define "frequently" as I have only had two Colt style ones break in my life and one Rem. hand spring. Personally, I don't think it's so much the design and moreso the poor Italian spring quality. As well, it helps to deburr the hand channel and liberally use grease therein afterward. Of course, it may all have been luck.  

I've broken two in the same match before, and one break on a new gun before it had been fired.  Over the years, I've probably had close to 10 break.  Most (all) of the revolvers that they have broken on had been deburred and polished.

[Coffinmaker]

Some folks are just plain incredibly lucky.  I'm of two minds (don't bring me into this).  Most disagreement about the flat had springs
comes from those who have "some guns" and just get lucky with the guns they have.  Also, flat hand spring need to be "tuned" to
a certain extent to work well, as we use the guns (a lot). 
Over a bazillion years working on SA design handguns, I ran into an uncountable "pile" of broken hand springs.  I put 6 hand springs
in one remington before I quit on the OEM springs and made a custom "one off" for the gun.  I came to the conclusion, it was a waste
of time and effort to wait for the spring to break.  It isn't "if" it'll break, it's how soon.  So I use the more "Hi Tech" solution, drill the
frame and install coil spring and plunger when I do the initial action job. (Past tense ... I retired)  ALL of my personal guns have coil
and plunger.
I did recently do a little work for a friend (I have one of those) who picked up a couple of second hand second generation Colt 1851s
that were in serious need.  Both guns had a wire spring (full wrap) installed, which interfered with the last 3/8 or so of hammer drop.
Both hands had to be replaced to fix that.  So care is needed with the wire spring fix to get it right.  Looks kind of hokey but actually
works a treat!!

Coffinmaker

[will52100]

I've got a bunch of open top colts, to the point where it's nearly a pair of every model they made.  In the last 20 years I've broken maybe a dozen hand springs.  Enough I have spares on hand, but not enough for me to look for a solution.  And these guns have been shot a lot, and run hard.

I think I'll be getting some spring wire to try this out next time I have one break though, looks to be a bit stronger than the leaf spring.

From a metal working stand point there's a couple of things that can make leaf springs, or any springs, fail.  The biggest is the heat treat.  If the stock is overheated going into the quench it's going to have weak grain structure and is asking for a break, no mater how low you temper the hardness.  The next is to low a tempering temp, which means the spring is left at too high a hardness level.  Poor geometry and stress risers can increase the chances of a break as well, such as deep scratches running diagonal to the bend of the spring, or rough areas in the hand channel causing excessive shocks to the spring.  A smooth channel with a little lube, and a properly heat treated spring should last a very, very long time.  Unfortunately I doubt very much any of the makers are producing a hand spring with a spot on heat treat.

The biggest issue I have with the leaf spring breaking is not so much the spring breaking, but the notch in the hand almost invariably breaks out when I try to get the broken piece of spring out to replace it.  Only way I can do it is to heat the tab with a jewler's torch and ease it up, and even then they sometimes break out.

[Coffinmaker]

Will52100

Don't know if it will help, but I quickly wait trying to remove the little piece of spring to replace it.  Same problem.  Broken notch.
I started using a special pad with a hole in it and used the new spring to drive in and push the old spring chunk out.  Worked a treat.

Coffinmaker

[will52100]

Thanks, but I think the next time I have an issue I'll try the music wire method, looks like it'll be sturdier than the leaf spring.  I've got a hand for a 60 RM that I'm going to try it on.

[Montana Slim]

Nothing wrong with using a wire spring as a quick fix. I saw that write up in an old gunsmithing book in my office library & again in Brownells gunsmthing "kinks" series of books.

Personally, I've probably had a half-dozen or so of the flat hand-springs break in the past 20 years. All but one in the Colt type of revolver (Uberti 1875). BUT,  before I put a new spring in place, I first see if substituting the broken piece of spring will function the revolver correctly....it often works nicely. If so, I go with that until it fails. No problem if the spring fails during a match, as mentioned above - lowering the barrel when cocking does the trick.

Eventually I will break down and splurge from my parts inventory and use a brand new hand spring. Usually do this over winter "break" from matches.  A few years ago I ran across a nice deal on bulk quantity of in-process hand assemblies(Just parts) & now have many spares. From these, I can fabricate Colt or Remington, double or single hands all from parts. Can grind them down to fit pocket models, too.

My oldest Remington C&B (New Model Army) is a kit-built Pietta (1981). Still has all original parts....and wear on the cylinder that proves it's no safe queen.

I'd have to say the most common hand spring failures have been with the factory Pietta 1860 C&B revolvers in my collection.

I use an old piece of spring to tap out the old one. Sometimes need to grind a bit of the steel where it's peened. A small knife or utility blade can be helpful, too. Sometimes I use a vice to help swage the new spring into place.

Slim

[Noz]

Why not do the smart thing and replace the flat hand springs BEFORE they break?

[Montana Slim]

Why not do the smart thing and replace the flat hand springs BEFORE they break?

Smart depends on your perspective....however, it is unnecessary to do so.

Without the force of the spring, the hand will still engage the cylinder teeth IF the revolver is tipped forward. This is the motion I always use in shooting cowboy revolvers. Two reasons for me to do this....
(1) I'm still close to 6'2" tall, and I rarely encounter a target where I'm not aiming lower than arm height, thus it is natural to do so.
(2) I typically lower the muzzle as I cock my piece, could call this "gravity assist".
...and...drum-roll....
(3) Assuming one is considering the coil-spring, ball & setscrew....they are not period correct.

All bets are off when I'm shooting in zero gravity.....yep, I will keep in mind the necessity of the spring at that time.

The time you'll miss the hand spring is when loading, gravity ain't helping in this function....so have to keep a close eye on dropping powder & ball into each of the five holes you were planning on.

Yes, I've shot more than a few stages with a broke hand spring. No big deal.

Regards,
Slim

BTW, the ability of the Colt revolver to continue functioning with one or more broken parts was considered by the Army Ordnance Board to be very advantageous.

[Coffinmaker]

Slim ........
Your just an Ol stick-inna-mudd.    However, comma, Hiccup, I feel your position is silly.  Even if you are tall enough to look down on
the targets.  But, then again, I'm a Gunplumber at heart, even if Retarded -- er -- Retired.  So for me, Proactive is much better than
Reactive.

PERIOD.  CORRECT.  What Moron ever dreamed up this term/concept.  BALDERDASH!!  If Colt, er All, had had the metallurgy and tooling
to made itty bitty tiny coil springs with plungers, there wouldn't be any flat hand springs today.  'Cept gad awful cheap to make.  And
effective.  Right up until they break off.  And they do.  Just makes sense to eliminate the problem.  Kinda like "don't light candles on top
yer powder keg" sort of thing.  It's my NSHO, the term and concept of "Period Correct" should and must be banished from the lexicon
of language.  So There!!  Harrumpff and all that.

Coffinmaker

[Lefty Dude]

When I first got my 1851's, I did all the tuning except the hand spring modification. I decided, well I just wait to do the last final step. It will break first before I spend the time for the task at hand. They lasted six months. On the final stage of a Monthly Club match one of the pair let me down. A broken factory hand spring. Well, this was two Weeks before the Arizona Stage match at Tombstone.

Needless to say I got my self in gear. I did the plunger/spring mod to both 51's.

Now when I get a new C&B open top, that leaf hand spring is the first to go.

[Noz]

Smart depends on your perspective....however, it is unnecessary to do so.

Without the force of the spring, the hand will still engage the cylinder teeth IF the revolver is tipped forward. This is the motion I always use in shooting cowboy revolvers. Two reasons for me to do this....
(1) I'm still close to 6'2" tall, and I rarely encounter a target where I'm not aiming lower than arm height, thus it is natural to do so.
(2) I typically lower the muzzle as I cock my piece, could call this "gravity assist".
...and...drum-roll....
(3) Assuming one is considering the coil-spring, ball & setscrew....they are not period correct.

All bets are off when I'm shooting in zero gravity.....yep, I will keep in mind the necessity of the spring at that time.

The time you'll miss the hand spring is when loading, gravity ain't helping in this function....so have to keep a close eye on dropping powder & ball into each of the five holes you were planning on.

Yes, I've shot more than a few stages with a broke hand spring. No big deal.

Regards,
Slim

BTW, the ability of the Colt revolver to continue functioning with one or more broken parts was considered by the Army Ordnance Board to be very advantageous.

I don'r do NCOWS but if you would come over to SASS I'd love to shoot against you.

[Montana Slim]

A bit disappointed, I was expecting bigger reactions..... 

Believe it or not, flat springs are still used on a number of modern firearm applications these days. Even military firearms. I'm more/less the spring design & manufacturing expert for a rather large group of technical folks in my "biz". There are some conditions in which a coil spring design can easily be over stressed, this results in the spring taking a "set" - That is a permanent reduction in it's ability to transfer energy. In many special cases a flat spring can operate better, react faster, and last longer. So, don't always assume a coil spring is superior to a flat one. Also...believe me or not, sometimes companies and individuals market unneeded "improvements". Gives folks something new to consider necessary. BTW, I'm a mechanical engineer with enough experience to show in my beard.

When I say period correct, I'm speaking essentially as-issued & used in it's day... mechanically as close as possible to OEM, 19th century.
Simple concept to me...& I don't mean to imply any organization's use of the term (such as NCOWS). I have few loopholes other than fixing trigger pulls & sights a bit Forcing cones, too on the pistols.. I like to be able to hit steel at 100 or more yds from time to time with my rifles and 50 yd with my pistols. Others can laugh all they want at the "PC" thought. Beauty of the sport is we each can have those opinions. To me, it's way more than a game. I try to recreate an authentic experience. If nothing else, I provide entertainment to the posse.

I haven't shot an NCOWS match in 6 or so years.....since getting hurt in a fall, I'm having a heck of a time with my back, neck, jaw, headaches....can't tolerate much travel...just going 'cross town CAN result in a day of extreme pain. So, I make do with local matches in Milan & Monmouth, IL. where I've been shooting cowboy for just a hair over 20 years.

Glad to have folks stop by & shoot at these clubs, 1st, 3rd & 4th Sunday May thru Oct.

BTW, I was more/less a charter member of our local SASS cowboy group & even "President" for a spell, primary match director & RO for a while, too.....and they still let me participate today.

Regards,
Slim

[Coffinmaker]

Well ..... Slim has hit on something an awful lot of Match Directors and Stage Writers have forgotten.  If they ever knew it.  SASS is
ENTERTAINMENT.   It was originally set up and conceived to be a game WE all PLAY at our own level.  It's not all speed speed SPEED.
It really need to be FUN.  SASS clubs need to understand, above all else, they are actually selling FUN when they collect those match
fees.
Slim has the right idea.  He plays the game as HE wants for his rewards.  I'm more of a technician, which I find surprising considering
what Slim does for a living.  Engineers are notorious at being NERDS.  However, FUN!! is name of the game we play.  And it's
important to understand it's just a game. 

So much for serious.  I DO so like to wind some folks up.  I try hard not to take myself to serious.  You see, when I screw up a stage,
I'me real entertaining when I do it.  Right on Slim!!!  Even if I do sometimes pick on ya a little.  It's all in fun.  Nuttin Personal 

Coffinmaker

Back to our Regularly Scheduled Programming!!

[Montana Slim]

   Agree....I'm with ya coffinmaker..thats a good rundown of my "code" so to speak.
Admit I provide an interesting study in "nerdness"...as well as stubbornness..the latter has nearly kilt me at least twice in the past few years.

Slim

[Flint]

I converted two Pietta Remingtons to Ruger mainsprings (20?) years ago, and, amazingly, they feel like Old Model Rugers when you work the actions...The original mainsprings, suitable for automotive suspension use, were too much for me.  They have held up very well.





Also converted to Ruger hand springs in Opentops...






A new hand, better designed for the plunger travel which can extend too far on the arched OEM hand runs smoother..
The set screw is not necessary on a Colt style, but is for a Remington.

[Cemetery]

Few months ago, my hand spring broke when I went to clean the gun a few days after a normal monthly match.  Few weeks ago I was able to get some local help and hand get the frame drilled for the Ruger Style modification, now my 60's are back to belching hell fire and brimstone!