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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  1911 & Wild Bunch Shooting (Moderators: Jefro, August)  |  Topic: M1909 Colt New Service .45 Colt 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: M1909 Colt New Service .45 Colt  (Read 7857 times)
Grapeshot
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« on: October 14, 2015, 01:36:45 pm »


Any of you historians out there ever run into accounts where M1909 .45 Colt New Service Revolvers were used by any unit or individual during the Mexican Punitive Expedition?  Just Curious.   
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Jake C
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2015, 02:28:38 pm »

Any of you historians out there ever run into accounts where M1909 .45 Colt New Service Revolvers were used by any unit or individual during the Mexican Punitive Expedition?  Just Curious.   

I haven't read about them being used, but I'd bet you money that they were privately purchased at the very least. Good, solid design in a very easy to find caliber? If I were a soldier back in the day, I'd jump all over it. Heck, I'd jump all over one today, if I could find one.
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St. George
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2015, 05:55:19 pm »

No.

There's some indication that a few were carried by senior Officers, but those stayed closer to the flagpole, and since the Army only issued them to those who actually were allocated them by TO&E, pistols were relatively few amongst the EM, unless one counts NCOs, Cavalry Troops and Field Artillery Batteries.

Incidentally, the M1909 round differs from the standard .45 Colt by having a wider rim.

Scouts Out!



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Grapeshot
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2015, 03:26:49 pm »

I agree that the M1909 round was wider at the rim than the .45 Colt, but some where in the back of my mind I remember reading that .45 Schofield ammo's rim was also a bit wider than the .45 Colt round so the extractor star in the S&W #3's would eject them and not slip over the rim like the .45 colt rim is prone to do in modern .45 Colt Revolvers like the Colt New Service, Colt Anaconda, and the S&W M25-5 and the S&W Mountain Gun.

I also remember seeing pictures of the US Marines in Honduras using M1909's against the rebel forces there in the 1920's.  Just a thought.
 
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Bunk Stagnerg
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2015, 05:03:01 pm »

I got a New Service in.45 Colt marked RCMP a Mounties gun. Does that count?
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Sir Charles deMouton-Black
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2015, 06:38:12 pm »

I got a New Service in.45 Colt marked RCMP a Mounties gun. Does that count?
Bunk

If you PM me the serial number, I will check it against the list in the Phillips/Klancher book, Arms & Accoutrements of the Mounted Police.
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2016, 09:48:14 pm »

Our cowboy club is a SASS(unaffiliated)and WASA club so when I wear my Punitive Expedition uniform I carry one of my .45 LC New Services in a crossdraw and my 1911 in a strongside cavalry swivel holster. Whenever I wear my Span Am uniform I'll carry a pair of .38 DA Colts. When I wear my British garb I break out the Webleys. I proposed a SASS military category many years ago and was shot down. Maybe a Military category could be possible at a match to allow the use of DA's. I love my big old Colts. Just a thought.
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2016, 11:58:35 pm »

Our cowboy club is a SASS(unaffiliated)and WASA club so when I wear my Punitive Expedition uniform I carry one of my .45 LC New Services in a crossdraw and my 1911 in a strongside cavalry swivel holster. Whenever I wear my Span Am uniform I'll carry a pair of .38 DA Colts. When I wear my British garb I break out the Webleys. I proposed a SASS military category many years ago and was shot down. Maybe a Military category could be possible at a match to allow the use of DA's. I love my big old Colts. Just a thought.

Baltimore Ed; You sound like an eager "volunteer`for The Grand Army of the Frontier, GAF.  Smiley

Check into The Barracks. Cool
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
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without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2016, 03:35:48 pm »

They'd have to change the name of the organization. But that doesn't 'splain 1911's in "Wild Bunch", does it?

Our club lets us shoot period DA revolvers in SA mode.

I proposed a SASS military category many years ago and was shot down. Maybe a Military category could be possible at a match to allow the use of DA's. I love my big old Colts. Just a thought.
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« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2016, 04:17:18 pm »

Baltimore Ed; You sound like an eager "volunteer`for The Grand Army of the Frontier, GAF.  Smiley

Check into The Barracks. Cool
Sir Charles; Thank you! Those were my thoughts exactly!

B Ed Here's the link:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?board=20.0


I proposed a SASS military category many years ago and was shot down. Maybe a Military category could be possible at a match to allow the use of DA's. I love my big old Colts. Just a thought.
That's actually how the GAF was formed. A bunch of SASS shooters who enjoyed shooting in uniform thought it would be fun to do it as a group. And, yes, we do allow (even encourage) shooting DA's.
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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2016, 10:55:49 pm »

Jake C, my local shop has a great 1909 in 45 colt with original holster .... It belonged to a tank man in wwi .. He accidentally took it home after the war and his son (an old man himself now) put it on consignment with my buddy ... I think he wants $950 .... I will get pictures tomorrow and post if I get the time to get over there tomorrow
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"Prairie Smoke" Jake
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2016, 05:58:34 pm »

Guys, thanks for the invite and I will investigate further but my problem is that I don't have the rifles to go with my handguns/uniforms per your rules. The only rifle other than sass .45lc long guns is a RCMP 1876 in .45-60. My Garand wouldn't work I guess. I've looked at '03s and Krags but didn't jump. My other issue is do you even muster in eastern NC? I am enjoying reading about GAF and it might be something that I can get into at some point in my retirement.
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2016, 07:19:10 pm »

Ed - just for info .... that would be a NWMP '76 Carbine, not RCMP.  The NWMP association with the '76 lasted for 36 years, the longest enjoyed by any shoulder arm issued to the Force, remaining the MP standby until 1914.

From a shooting point of view, you've got the right calibre.
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2016, 07:59:21 pm »

I'd like to point out that we do  have classes for sidearm only.
Right now we don't have much going on on the East coast, but would like to get something started. It appears we do have a couple of guys wanting to come back here this summer. Maybe you could car pool.  Roll Eyes
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Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
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Sir Charles deMouton-Black
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2016, 08:10:24 pm »

The RNWMP began purchasing Colt New service revolvers in September of 1904, in .455 until 1914. From 1919 until 1942, all Colt New Service revolvers purchased by the force were in .45 Colt. ALso, after WWI the Webley Mk VI was an "ancillary" issue, used in small numbers until 1950

After 1914, the primary long arm would have been the Lee-Enfield carbine, but after WWI, the Mk III SMLE was much more prevalent.

There was a vast array of other firearms used by the Force. You would have to consult the Phillips & Klancher book, Arms & Accoutrements of the Mounted Police, 1873-1973.

P.S: There were some unusual ones, varying from the Savage 99 to the Maxim or Lewis Cool
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2016, 08:56:56 pm »

Baltimore Ed, keep in mind we in GAF have categories that cover just about any centerfire  cartridge rifle built in the 1800's.There are classes for your SASS rifles, as well as your 45-60.
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2016, 09:31:04 pm »

Another good reference on the firearms of the NWMP, RNWMP and RCMP is "Small Arms of the Mounted Police", Historical Arms Series No. 6, by R. Phillips and S.J. Kirby.

Just to clarify - the NWMP acquired the "Royal" appellation in 1904 and then morphed into the RCMP in 1920 after absorbing the "Dominion Police".

Their history is a considerably more highly regarded than their current image, that being one of a distinct anti-gun agenda. But, that is politics, and we'll just celebrate their lore and legend.
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« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2016, 11:14:07 am »

Guys, thanks for the invite and I will investigate further but my problem is that I don't have the rifles to go with my handguns/uniforms per your rules. The only rifle other than sass .45lc long guns is a RCMP 1876 in .45-60. My Garand wouldn't work I guess. I've looked at '03s and Krags but didn't jump. My other issue is do you even muster in eastern NC? I am enjoying reading about GAF and it might be something that I can get into at some point in my retirement.
As I've mentioned we don't have a lot going on on the East Coast but you may want to get in touch with Charles Isaac. As for attending the Grand Muster; If you want to attend and you only have "Cowboy guns" Come we'll find a class for what you have.

I asked Charles the following question and received the below response.

Private, have you found the registration form yet?

Where are you posted these days? There is another Recruit out on the East coast that maybe looking for a ride.

Still in NE North Carolina-near where the Wright brothers first flew in 1903!







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Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
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Drydock
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« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2016, 08:04:37 pm »

I would add, it is the rifle that determines your classification, not the uniform.  Uniforms are desired, but not required to shoot.  Your M1876 and a Colt NS would be an ideal combination for our Militia Classification.  Your SASS rifles would put you in Scout Class.  You  have everything you need allready to shoot a GAF match.  Watch a few of our videos, hang out in the barracks, look up Charles Isaac,  and come on out for a Muster!

I shoot my GAF guns at my Local SASS Monthly match, they like to watch Pony Express play our own version of the game.  Ever Shoot with ECSASS out on the NC coast?  Lot of friends of mine from my USN days out there.
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« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2016, 09:03:53 pm »

Drydock, I wasn't sure if you were the same Drydock that I used to shoot with at ECSASS. Good to hear that you're still around and shooting.
It's been a few years. I'm still banging away, same wife, same jacked up house, different guns, retired for 2 years. Got through Irene but it was rough for a while. I've gotten curious about your military shooting game. As I said years ago in my Military category proposal to the Wild Bunch 'We all played cowboys and indians as kids but we also played army so why not a military category?' I've not shot a SASS match in a long time. I shoot WASA at Dare Co and honestly dont plan on shooting my Vaqueros. I might play SASS's Wild Bunch though as it gives me a chance to shoot in MY category even if I'm the only one.
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« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2016, 10:22:23 pm »

Drydock, I wasn't sure if you were the same Drydock that I used to shoot with

For sure there's only one Drydock!
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« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2016, 12:34:17 am »

Baltimore Ed. A name out of the past. Don't know if you remember the old gimpy guy with the golf cart and the big umbrella. Attended a number of matches with you. Good to hear from you.
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« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2016, 08:49:37 pm »

Howdy there Red Cent! Yes we have shot a few matches together. Good times at Salisbury. Hope the years have been good to you. Ed
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2016, 03:58:37 am »

I bought a used 1909  back in the 80's that had been refinished I believe. I paid $150. I learned two things first outing: 

1.  the grip is for NFL linebackers

2.  mine shot at least a foot high at 7 yds.


The high POA was par for the course on old handguns of course. I never have been a fan of the Colt New Service. I'll take an old S&W HE any day over one. Better grip and better action. Just my 2 cents.
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2016, 11:57:25 am »

I  put a Pachmayr grip adapter on my .455 New Service. Makes it shootable.
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I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  1911 & Wild Bunch Shooting (Moderators: Jefro, August)  |  Topic: M1909 Colt New Service .45 Colt « previous next »
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