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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  CAS FAQ (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Will Ketchum)  |  Topic: 44spl ammo question 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Big George McCoy
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« on: July 29, 2015, 12:03:58 pm »


Not being familiar with the 44spl ammo I have a question

Am I correct in thinking that this round can be safely chambered and fired from a 44-40 revolver?

Could someone tell me the specifications of the brass for both the 44-40 and the 44spl?

Would truly appreciate the info.

Thanks

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Blair
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2015, 12:17:18 pm »

Buy a book, called "Cartridges of the World", by Barnes.
This should give you the best info on such things.
I hope this may help?
My best,
 Blair
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Jake C
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2015, 01:11:13 pm »

Not being familiar with the 44spl ammo I have a question

Am I correct in thinking that this round can be safely chambered and fired from a 44-40 revolver?

Could someone tell me the specifications of the brass for both the 44-40 and the 44spl?

Would truly appreciate the info.

Thanks



Typically, no. As I understand it, original .44-40 rounds were typically around .420-.427 (I've seen original loading tools that would cast .44-40 bullets somewhere between .410-.420, somewhere in that window, and modern reproductions use the same .429 as the .44 Russian line of cartridges) whereas cartridges descended from the .44 Russian (including the .44 special) fire a .429-.430 bullet. Also, the .44-40 is a bottlenecked cartridge, the .44 special is a straight-walled one. The only way you can fire a .44 special out of a .44-40 revolver is if you're buying a modern reproduction, and then have a .44 special cylinder fitted, essentially.

Someone with more knowledge on gunsmithing and what not can give you better information and more correct terminology than me, of course, I'm just an enthusiast.
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Big George McCoy
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2015, 01:44:31 pm »

Hey guys

Thanks for the replies and information. Basically its the apples and oranges thing. Can't make an apple pie out of oranges. Well I guess you can, but the results would not be good.

Again, my thanks.
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Jake C
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2015, 02:44:40 pm »

Like I said, you can kind of do it, but you can't do it with an original, and you'll need a whole new cylinder and a little bit of gunsmithing done. But anyway, happy to have been a small help.
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2015, 05:26:04 pm »

The bore on many current production guns is the same but it is a totally different cartridge. It's not like the 44 mag/special thing.

So no you can not fire 44spl ammo in a 44-40 but in current production guns you can load them both with the same bullets provided your gun will chamber the rounds loaded with the larger diameter bullets.

Original 44-40 used smaller diameter bullets so that is where things get tricky. I like to slug the bore on any 44-40 guns to determine what bullet to use in it, sometimes they are like a box of chocolates.
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Abilene
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2015, 07:08:14 pm »

... sometimes they are like a box of chocolates.

preferably "dark" chocolate,  Cheesy
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Professor Marvel
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 07:47:54 pm »

preferably "dark" chocolate,  Cheesy

Oh Abilene you are a card! this visual might help, especially when it becomes difficult to see the actual cartridges without your "readers"

44-40 a bottlenecked cartridge:



.44 spcl a straightwall cartidge



yhs
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Trailrider
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2015, 12:13:51 pm »

Professor Marvel has given the best data on the differences between the .44-40 and the .44 Russian/Special/Magnum family of cartridges. (The basic case for the .44 Russian/Special/Magnum family is the same, differing only in case length and the allowable pressures, based on the strength of the guns. The longer cases were ostensibly designed so that the hotter cartridges couldn't be chambered in the guns for which the Russian and Special rounds were originally intended. The older, shorter rounds can certainly be fired from .44 Magnum guns. Whether rifles chambered for the longer rounds will feed reliably is another matter.)

While I have heard of the "family" cartridges being fired in .44-40 chambers, it is a BAD IDEA! The likelihood of a split case is high!

Interestingly, while the .44 Special family uses a nominal .429-.430" bullet, I've measured 2nd Gen. Colts chambered in .44 Special with .427" barrels!  As to the matter of bullet diameters in the .44-40 and the "family", it is true that the original .44-40 bullets were nominally .427" diameter, I have measured throats in everything from original Colt's Frontier Six Shooter at .425" with a .427" barrel, to .425" throats in Old Model Ruger Vaqueros with .429" barrels (in the 55-XXXXX to 56-XXXXX serial range, before Ruger went to .429" throats just prior to discontinuing guns in .44-40), to original Winchester '73's with .434" groove dia. barrels!!  Huh  Shocked  Most modern Italian-made guns use .429" barrels. I haven't measured enough to know how they are throating the revolver cylinders.

The result there is slug the barrel and the chamber throats, and then decide the bullet diameter that gives the best accuracy. But DO NOT shoot .44 Specials in .44-40 chambers!
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Abilene
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2015, 12:50:22 pm »

Also, if you look at the dimensions posted by Prof. Marvel, you will see that you cannot even chamber a .44 Spcl, not even the empty brass, in a 44-40 chamber.  The shorter .44 Russian will chamber, and I've heard of some who have fired them like this, but it is not recommended.
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