Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 20, 2017, 10:34:57 am

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  1911 & Wild Bunch Shooting (Moderators: Jefro, August)  |  Topic: Wild at "Wild Bunch" 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Wild at "Wild Bunch"  (Read 3057 times)
PJ Hardtack
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3273


« on: June 25, 2015, 03:09:48 pm »


Last weekend my wife and I attended the first local two day CAS event. First day was miserable, damp, drizzly - perfect for cap & ball! Idonwanttotalkaboudit .....
The 2nd day dawned bright and sunny and they held an intro WB bunch event and just about everyone came so equipped. Because I've shot WB at two BC Champs, me and an old IPSC hand served as RO's.

It quickly became apparent that although they had the guns and gear, familiarization with the workings and handling of the 1911 was lacking. Our assumption that everyone was experienced with their guns was short lived. For example - someone transferring the gun to the left hand in order to insert a mag with the right.

We got everyone through safely, but let it be known that our upcoming event, a seminar on the handling of the 1911 will be mandatory for ALL participants, regardless of claimed experience.

I have long felt tat there ought to be a CAS equivalent to the IPSC Black Badge course, and this experience has reinforced that belief. It tends to bruise some egos when you offer pointers regarding some people's gun handling skills, but if it prevents an incident - Cowboy Up!

In the past I've heard comments like - "I've always done it this way." My answer to that is - "Yes, and you've always been wrong."
Anyone had similar experience?



Logged

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
Dusty Boddams
Very Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 85


« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2015, 08:27:47 am »

Sounds like you need to get in touch with your WB ambassador whom I think is legendary lawman. The WB RO course really should be taken by everyone that shoots WB. This way all are on the same page so to speak and safe gun handling of course is part of that. Personally in the areas I attend matches at I have not run into a mass of unsafe gun skills like you did. Most all of our competitors are accomplished with the 1911 with lots of competitors having a history with the 1911 dating back many years. A seminar does sound like a great idea to accomplish safety immediately. Were these competitors cas shooters? If so they know safety and will be an easy bunch to educate on the 1911. Good luck and keep shooting WB, first events are always eye openers.   Dusty Boddams
Logged
PJ Hardtack
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3273


« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2015, 08:49:36 pm »

Yes, they were all experienced CAS people. There was no excuse for the host club not to have down loaded the rules and done an inhouse training session.

The difference between Canadians and Americans is that the 1911 is/was and will always part of the American psyche. North of the DMZ, "bottom feeders" like the 1911 are the stuff of old IPSC shooters. The younger ones shoot plastic guns in a wimpy small bore called the 9mm.
Logged

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
Professor Marvel
purveyor of useless items to the gentry
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1509


life is too short to waste on stupid


« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2015, 09:30:30 pm »

My Dear PJ -

I read your missive

It quickly became apparent that although they had the guns and gear, familiarization with the workings and handling of the 1911 was lacking. Our assumption that everyone was experienced with their guns was short lived. For example - someone transferring the gun to the left hand in order to insert a mag with the right.


with trepidation and despair ummm .. distress. 

My PPC and IPSC days are so long ago, in the Midwest of the USA, so I had to look up IPSC Black Badge course , and found it to be an excellent idea.

Furthermore, based on your anecdotal evidence, I firmly believe forcing participants to sit thru such a seminar would be a minimum; If it were me, I would like to see each participant demonstrate  that it sunk in, rather like the getting a U.S. Hunter's Safety Card or a Boy Scout Totin' Chip ( there see, now I've gone and dated myself! )

Quote

In the past I've heard comments like - "I've always done it this way." My answer to that is - "Yes, and you've always been wrong."
Anyone had similar experience?


Well, yes, and I find that to be a common "defensive" reply - somehow they feel the need to defend rather than learn.
My patience is far shorter, my reply has been shorter and less nice; I guess I come off like the a DI on the firing line... but it works.
Since I care about safety more than hurt feelings, I mostly quit instructing altogether and now leave it to more polite types.

I do not know if you can get them in Canada, but a while back I picked up a very lifelike CO2 blowback airsoft 1911 and use it for plinking and training drills - knowing it is non-lethal makes training less ..... intense . Perhaps that might work for you?

yhs
prof marvel
Logged

Professor Marvel's Traveling Apothecary and Fortune Telling Emporium
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods, and Picture Postcards
PJ Hardtack
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3273


« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2015, 10:20:42 am »

IPSC may well be fastidious in many aspects, but their proven track record is noteworthy. The "Black Badge Course" is arguably one of the best pistol handling courses available to the general public. I've known several people who took it with no intentions of ever entering competition.

I was one of the early BB instructors as I came into the sport from Regular Army and was quite familiar with the 9mm Hi Power.
I walked from the sport when it lost it's relevance to the real world with optical sights and impractical holsters. My wife expressed an interest in IPSC so she took the course and I re-audited. The game had changed considerably!

She was already a competent SASS revolver shooter, but the course gave her confidence in handling a semi-auto. She took it with one of her two Ruger SR9's. Shortly after I let her shoot one of my 1911's and now she owns three of them! Now we're looking at IDPA as a more relevant sport.

We won't have the time to have each competitor demo his handling skills (or lack thereof) so a period of instruction will have to suffice, along with some close supervision on the line. The COF will be kept simple.

I too was said to be too "militaristic" in my instructing, but I made no apology. I wasn't there to make friends, but to keep them and myself safe on the range.
Logged

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
Dusty Boddams
Very Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 85


« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2015, 12:19:04 pm »

Safety is paramount! I will say one more time a wild bunch RO class solves all the problems you are speaking of. There's no reason to reinvent the wheel. The tools are already in place,they just need to be put to use. Given your training it seems as you are a great candidate to be an WB RO instructor. Idpa is a great single gun sport but if it's run by the rule book you will find some " oddities " with that game also. I participated in that game when it just got started.like everything else it's changed some over the years but still fun and viable. Wild bunch came along and that is what I shoot a lot of now. WB is not training. WB is a shooting competition. Good solid rules that keep the equipment race at bay. Good folks to compete with.  I am a WB RO and an avid competitor having won overall at several state matches and many  monthly matches in different areas. If you have the opportunity to head south and compete in a real organized WB match you will be at a safe match with lots of shooting and a large time in general!  Dusty Boddams
Logged
PJ Hardtack
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3273


« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2015, 03:35:19 pm »

I will look into the WB RO course.

As for attending matches south of the DMZ, that ain't gonna happen! In the past, I've attended several matches at Cody, Wyoming, and in Idaho, but these days I prefer not to run the gauntlet of taking firearms into Fortress America.

I have more than enough anti-gun paranoia to deal with here without adding more.
Logged

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
Dusty Boddams
Very Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 85


« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2015, 03:49:04 pm »

I do understand that! If you do find yourself south make plans to attend a WB match. There's always plenty of hardware to let a fellow shooter have some fun.  Dusty
Logged
PJ Hardtack
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3273


« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2015, 07:06:59 pm »

I appreciate that, but the trail is just as long both ways.

We don't see many Americans crossing the DMZ these days to bring guns into Canuckistan. If you ever tried to, you know what I'm talking about.

If you're American, it is PRESUMED that you would have a gun(s). If you declare it, you're OK. Otherwise, you can kiss your gun good-bye and perhaps face charges.
Logged

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
August
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 533


« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2015, 04:06:51 pm »

WBAS has done an excellent job of developing rules and guidelines, making sure Ambassadors are available and well distributed, training R/O Instructors (Black Badges), and offering courses for shooters who wish to serve as Range Officers at matches.  

There is a good "Introduction to Wild Bunch Shooting" guide available on-line at: http://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/WBAS_OrientationOutline_012511.pdf

There is no reason why any person who's interested could not make good use of that orientation.  

My experience is that the heat of competition can result in careless gun handling at any time.  We must all be mindful and watchful to be sure poor gun handling does not attend our beloved sport.  What I mean by this is, safety is not a "once and done" kind of thing in Wild Bunch.  It is a continuous and ongoing job.  

It seems to take some people a lot of time, experience, and practice to handle the John Browning pistol safely.  The rest of us are here to help them to do just that. 

Some of the worst "accidents" I've witnessed at matches were precipitated by very experienced shooters.

We must be patient and vigilant with novice and seasoned shooters alike.
Logged
Montana Slim
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1828



« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2015, 04:50:02 pm »

We're getting up to speed at my local club (Milan Rifle Club, IL). Had a match last Sunday...decent interest, I think we'll have more on next year's schedule.

Anyway, we had a 20 minute safety brief to cover the loading/use of the shotgun & the 1911. We accomodated those without confidence in having correct leather to stage pistol and magazines. Good learning event & more chance for shooting sport enjoyment.
Most shooters were experienced CASers...I think we may draw a few new shooters as a result. I wouldn't be surprised if it grew the CAS membership as well ans the entry WB gear is so close to CAS. Good all the way around.

My 1911 was smiling, as it hadn't been used in a while. My 1866 Carbine shot well, but complained about the lack of smoke, flames and hysterical authenticity. My hammered SxS was a mite offended when the old-97 came out of the safe - oh-my!

The 1911 balked on me one time. Seemed my (former) supplier let one boolit skip past the sizing station, causing a non-immediately clearable jam on my end... and left 3-rounds unfired (boo-hoo). Guess I'll make my own boolits now and only have me to blame for my "miss" tally.

For our next match, I'll suggest adding a link to the "Introduction to Wild Bunch Shooting" orientation guide in our match reminder's.
....and, I'll try to put an advance match announcement on this forum!

Thanks,
Slim
Yes, I have "modern" guns and smokless powder too!
Logged

Western Reenacting                 Dark Lord of Soot
Live Action Shooting                 Pistoleer Extrordinaire
Firearms Consultant                  Gun Cleaning Specialist
NCOWS Life Member                 NRA Life Member
Abilene
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2296



WWW
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2015, 04:59:59 pm »

... My 1866 Carbine shot well, but complained about the lack of smoke, flames and hysterical authenticity....

You can shoot BP in Wild Bunch if that will make your '66 happy  Wink
Logged

Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  1911 & Wild Bunch Shooting (Moderators: Jefro, August)  |  Topic: Wild at "Wild Bunch" « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.049 seconds with 22 queries.