Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 17, 2017, 11:46:49 pm

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Longbranch (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Silver Creek Slim, Camille Eonich)  |  Topic: 1917 revolvers in Westerns 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: 1917 revolvers in Westerns  (Read 5365 times)
nagantino
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 159


Oh yeah.......


« on: June 16, 2015, 04:28:18 am »


I was watching a movie yesterday while my car is in the shop. It was called Gunmans Walk starting Van Heflin, James Darren and Tab Hunter. It's a handsome movie though not one of my favourites. Anyway Van Heflin is showing the 2 youngsters how to shoot by throwing bottles up. I'm certain they are using S&W 1917 revolvers. I suppose it makes sense, draw and pull the trigger fast, with no cocking the hammer. It's not possible to see real close but I'm certain they are not using SA Colts. Has anyone else noticed similar anomalies?
Logged
Major 2
"Still running against the wind"
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10282


Cracker Cow Cavalry


« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2015, 04:50:12 am »

The Comancheos  chasing Gus in Lonesome Dove


* 600px-LDColtNewService-1.jpg (53.01 KB, 600x338 - viewed 345 times.)
Logged
Trailrider
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2008



WWW
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2015, 10:54:50 am »

What time period was the movie? Could they have been using the M1917's as a substitute for M1894 DA .38LC or somewhere in between? Probably much easier to get shootable (or not) guns for the movie, than the earlier models.
Logged

Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

Your obedient servant,
Trailrider,
Bvt. Lt. Col. Commanding,
Southern District
Dept. of the Platte, GAF
St. George
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4510


NCOWS , GAF, B.O.L.D., Order of St. George, SOCOM,


« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2015, 12:17:33 pm »

A lot of celluloid 'heroes' couldn't manage thumb-cocking, but could handle pulling a trigger - plus war-surplus M1917s were even cheaper and more plentiful than used SAAs, so Hollywood armorers put fake ejector housings on them and figured that no one would notice.

Just like the fake 'webs' attached to SAAs to make them look like Civil War 1858 Remingtons, and fake 'flintlock' sideplates on rolling blocks to replicate flintlock rifles.

Scouts Out!
Logged

"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."
Major 2
"Still running against the wind"
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10282


Cracker Cow Cavalry


« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 12:26:26 pm »

St. George is spot on

Logged
Jubal Starbuck
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 172


« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2015, 04:55:38 pm »

   Seems like Marlon Brando used one in "One Eyed Jacks" also.
Logged
nagantino
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 159


Oh yeah.......


« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2015, 11:27:06 am »

In the movie my interest was piqued when I saw Van Heflin reloading on the left of the revolver, but keeping the gun covered. I think I a saw Lucky Ned Pepper with something similar in True Grit when he was calling to Rooster to back off. In One Eyed Jacks, Marlon Brando can be seen galloping off, after a shoot out near the town fountain, and his revolver go flying from his holster.
Logged
Bruce W Sims
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 294


« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 08:31:56 am »

OK...maybe its just me but with all of the resources and money available to
movie-making outfits, is it really that much of a nose-bleed to at least use
period-correct pieces? From what little I know, there are actually resources
in the Hollywood area that "rent-out" all kinds of bits. I swear, sometimes I
half-expect to see Civil War scenes with bolt-action rifles! Can't be THAT tough
can it?

Best Wishes,

Bruce
Logged
Jake C
Department of the Atlantic, GAF # 834
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 476


« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 10:44:44 am »

OK...maybe its just me but with all of the resources and money available to
movie-making outfits, is it really that much of a nose-bleed to at least use
period-correct pieces? From what little I know, there are actually resources
in the Hollywood area that "rent-out" all kinds of bits. I swear, sometimes I
half-expect to see Civil War scenes with bolt-action rifles! Can't be THAT tough
can it?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

It's not an issue of historical accuracy as much as it is an issue with actors. As St. George said, they'd use 1917's mocked up as SAA for actors who couldn't thumb-cock a SAA revolver fast enough. Basically a little ploy to make your old western hero look more impressive.
Logged

Win with ability, not with numbers.- Alexander Suvorov, Russian Field Marshal, 1729-1800
Johnson Barr
Berger Sharpshooters, KVC, Blue River Regulators, Double M Cowboys, GAF
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 131


NRA Life, TSRA Life, NCOWS Life, NCOWS Senator


WWW
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 12:30:26 pm »

Here's one for you; try the final shoot-out between Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda in 'Fire Creek'. Jimmy's DA has a Single Action ejector rod housing on the barrel even though he swings the cylinder out from the frame to fumble a reload just as Inger Stevens drills Fonda from the up stairs boarding house window.
Logged

"Peace is that glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading"  -Thomas Jefferson
Coal Creek Griff
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1209


With Cheyenne Luke


« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 01:12:22 pm »

Towards the end of "Winchester '73", Jimmy Stewart has his shootout with Dan Duryea.  Duryea was disarmed, but manages to grab a gun from another guy's holster.  Good thing for him that it happened to be a double-action so he could fire all of those shots into the ground as he was dying.

CC Griff
Logged

BOLD #921
BOSS #196
1860 Henry Rifle Shooter #173
SSS #573
The Pathfinder
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 408


« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2015, 01:38:18 pm »

Watch El Dorado, the scene in the church where Mitchum is shooting at the bad guys. He's carrying a SAA running into the church, but comes up firing a DA, and if you listen closely you can hear him drop the DA on the pew as he grabs the SAA to run out of the church with. Grin
Logged
nagantino
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 159


Oh yeah.......


« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2015, 03:13:52 pm »

But wouldn't you wonder why. John Wayne knew his way around a revolver. I suspect Robert Duvall does too. The point about about Dan Duryea in that great shoot out in Winchester 73 is a good one. If it's explained to an actor and it makes sense to the action, then I have less objection. If it's just carelessness that's different.
Logged
Fox Creek Kid
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 4448



« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 09:58:04 pm »

...John Wayne knew his way around a revolver...


Logged
Major 2
"Still running against the wind"
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10282


Cracker Cow Cavalry


« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2015, 12:42:50 am »

THAT IS JUST WRONG !
Logged
Judge Roy Bean
Judge Roy Bean (U.K)
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 193



WWW
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2015, 02:51:07 am »

Alan Ladd fans a double action in Shane . both Dean and Bob do in five card stud while shooting at the wind mill /
Logged

Texas & Miss Lilly.
  shoot"em"first hang "em" later.
Bruce W Sims
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 294


« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2015, 08:52:31 am »

For myself, I just wonder how much some of these actors really investigate the back-story
of a given individual they are going to portray. I know the character is usually ficticious,
but I am suspicious of just how much the actor knows about, say, the drover lifestyle or
what daily life was like in a frontier town.  FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce
Logged
Major 2
"Still running against the wind"
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10282


Cracker Cow Cavalry


« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2015, 12:59:29 pm »

Some like Robert Duvall , are quite knowledgeable, He is extremely well learned in ACW history.
Gregory Peck was well versed & studied A. Lincoln.
Hal Holbrook is another A. Lincoln & ACW  scholar.

the late Ben Johnson was an American west historian ,  "Dobe" (Harry Carry Jr. ) and  Noah Berry Jr. could school you too.
 
Buck Taylor is great to listen to,  as is Sam Elliot & Kurt Russell
Logged
St. George
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4510


NCOWS , GAF, B.O.L.D., Order of St. George, SOCOM,


« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2015, 02:10:00 pm »

However - many of the actors in question didn't care...

They were 'actors' - interchangeable, unless they were the star - and were lucky to have jobs.

They also didn't have any input into scripts back in the '40's and '50's when the iconic Westerns were churned out - they just showed up and followed the script and collected their pay.

Why in the world would an actor even care?

They're actors - they don't sit and pontificate - they wonder if their agent was going to get them another job after 'this' one was in the can, and if someone new on the scene was going to usurp their position - if they could get any shallower - they'd be dust.

Many didn't even like guns - but they made them money, so they holstered them, brandished them and thanks to the Special Effects men - shot bad guys galore either hand, and with an accuracy that would stun even Louis L'Amour.

Try to absorb the salient fact that they're movies - designed to entertain the masses with mindless excitement in an air-conditioned environment - not documentaries designed to enlighten history students.

Scouts Out!
Logged

"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."
Delmonico
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24281



« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2015, 04:18:41 pm »

If one has a very broad base in knowledge of historical objects you will find it's not limited to guns, it's cars, tack, music and one could keep naming objects till you were blue in the face.   

It really boils down to they are made for entertainment and 95% or more of the people who watch them don't have enough knoweldge to know the differance.     

Heck, watch enough reruns of Dukes of Hazzard and you might notice if you know hat and where to look, not all the General Lee's were Chargers.    Wink
Logged

Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.
Coal Creek Griff
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1209


With Cheyenne Luke


« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2015, 06:12:43 pm »

not all the General Lee's were Chargers.    Wink

How DARE you bash an American icon!  What are you, communist?  Grin.

(Actually, I've never seen a full episode of "Dukes of Hazzard".)

CC Griff
Logged

BOLD #921
BOSS #196
1860 Henry Rifle Shooter #173
SSS #573
Major 2
"Still running against the wind"
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10282


Cracker Cow Cavalry


« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2015, 07:22:47 pm »

moseying bit off topic   Undecided  speaking of cars

I worked on a TV series pilot in the mid 70's,   title was Key West  with Steven Boyd and the great Woody Strode
The main character drove Porsche 911 , in a scene when they forced off the 7 Mile bridge.... Special EFX
substituted a non-running Jaguar XKE body in the actual off the bridge into the drink shot.  
A freaking XKE   Shocked    


https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=key+west+movie&fr=ymyy-t-500&fr2=p%3Amy%2Cm%3Asb
Logged
Delmonico
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24281



« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2015, 08:02:12 pm »

How DARE you bash an American icon!  What are you, communist?  Grin.

(Actually, I've never seen a full episode of "Dukes of Hazzard".)

CC Griff

Two door Cornets were cheaper even back then and even a few 4 doors dies making the show.  We used to drink beer and look for the differances in the cars, some even had stock single exhausts and most likely those lousy under powered gas sucking 318's. 
Logged

Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.
Bruce W Sims
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 294


« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2015, 07:25:03 am »

Some like Robert Duvall , are quite knowledgeable, He is extremely well learned in ACW history.
Gregory Peck was well versed & studied A. Lincoln.
Hal Holbrook is another A. Lincoln & ACW  scholar.

the late Ben Johnson was an American west historian ,  "Dobe" (Harry Carry Jr. ) and  Noah Berry Jr. could school you too.
 
Buck Taylor is great to listen to,  as is Sam Elliot & Kurt Russell

Ben Johnson was a personal favorite of mine....

Best Wishes,

Bruce
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Longbranch (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Silver Creek Slim, Camille Eonich)  |  Topic: 1917 revolvers in Westerns « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.075 seconds with 21 queries.