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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  USFA CSS (Moderator: Capt. John Fitzgerald)  |  Topic: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody! 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody!  (Read 17265 times)
Capt. John Fitzgerald
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« on: April 29, 2015, 10:26:52 pm »


A few days ago, Yahoody started a thread requesting USFA serial numbers in the apparent attempt to give all of us guidelines as to when your guns were made and if they were, in fact, Uberti parts guns or "all US made" models.  I applaud his efforts as this forum is one of the few place that one could possibly hope to gather such information.  I, for one, went back through years of postings on this site in order to determine dates of purchase for the various USFA's that I own.  So…
 Let's give him a hand!  If you know the date of purchase of your USFA, please post it here along with the serial number.  If you are one of those people who refuse reveal serial numbers then just give him the first three digits - instead of 12345, give him 123XX.  Post your numbers here.  Should this string start to go "off topic," as many do, I will delete those posts.  Serial numbers, models and dates only, PLEASE!
We have no real "history" of USFA and Yahoody is to be commented for his efforts.  Let's help him out!
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yahoody
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2015, 11:48:39 pm »

Thanks Cap' !
These are guns I have examined personally.

216XX bought used in 2008 nickel BP (Uberti parts)
216XX  Bought used in 2008 nickel BP  (Uberti parts) 
239XX  Bought used in 2009 Prewar (USA gun)
2725X  new Premium 2009  (USA)
2725X  new Premium 2009   "
2725X  new Premium 2009   "

21213 parts gun
21215 parts gun
21651 parts gun
22113 parts gun
22180 parts gun*  transitional guns by the # out of order?

22154 USA gun*  transitional guns by the # out of order?
22293 cone USA
22421  cone firing pin
22934 cone USA gun

Many different ways to hide a US or a Uberti gun.  Firing pin shape and loading gate cut is NOT definitive but are the easiest way to check and fairly accurate a majority of the time.

Serial number series for many of the guns..

Cowboy                       CB500 on
Gunslinger                    starts with 57XXX
Lightning rifle                2000
Buntline                        28XXX
Lend Lease 45ACP      357XXX
JW Red River D            RRXXX
Rodeo Sheriff               SKAXXX
Rodeo II Sheriff            SMBXXX
Cowboy Sheriff             SMCXXX
Sheriff SAA                   SMDXXX   
Special Sheriff/ Bisley hammer    US1XXX
Rodeo                          Single letter followed by 3 digits
China Camp                  CCXXX
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Capt. John Fitzgerald
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2015, 03:55:39 am »

I have several USFA's that I have bought over the years but can only find positive purchase date information on three of them.  They are;

Sept. '05, 4" Ejectorless, SN 285XX
Nov. '08, 5 & 1/2" SAA, SN 262XX
Oct. '10, Double Eagle, SN 731XX

Note that the one purchased in '08 has a serial number that is 2000+ lower than the one purchased in '05.
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texagun
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2015, 07:27:55 am »

USFA SAA .45 Colt, 4 3/4" barrel  ordered and received in 2010 Ser.# 282XX
USFA SAA .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible 5 1/2" barrel ordered and received in 2011 Ser.# 284XX

Both are all USA guns.
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Capt. John Fitzgerald
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2015, 08:55:50 pm »

Texagun,
Thank you for your contribution but it would be much more helpful if you could provide the first THREE numbers.  That would narrow it down to a hundred gun range rather than a thousand, making it easier to determine the exact year guns within those ranges were made. 
For example;  your 2010 is given as 28XXX and your 2011 as 28XXX.  If we had 281XX for 2010 and 282XX for 2011, we would then know that the 2010 production year ended, and 2011 started, somewhere between 28100 and 28200. 
Sincerely,
CJF
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texagun
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2015, 09:02:37 pm »

Texagun,
Thank you for your contribution but it would be much more helpful if you could provide the first THREE numbers.  That would narrow it down to a hundred gun range rather than a thousand, making it easier to determine the exact year guns within those ranges were made. 
For example;  your 2010 is given as 28XXX and your 2011 as 28XXX.  If we had 281XX for 2010 and 282XX for 2011, we would then know that the 2010 production year ended, and 2011 started, somewhere between 28100 and 28200. 
Sincerely,
CJF

Done.
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Capt. John Fitzgerald
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2015, 09:08:04 pm »

Thanks, Texagun! (by the way, great name)
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Reverend P. Babcock Chase
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2015, 09:48:03 pm »

Howdy Pards,

I don't know if this helps, but it has me confused. I have a pair of rodeos Ser.#'s E960 & E970. Matte finish (now polished back to a nice grey patina) with white-sided hammers and cone firing pins. I bought them late 2005 after a bit of a wait (a few months).

I guess Rodeos had a different serial range than the standard models. Anyone have info on this?

Reverend Chase
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Capt. John Fitzgerald
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2015, 09:50:29 pm »

Reverend,
Thank you for the information and welcome to our forum!
CJF
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yahoody
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2015, 10:32:08 pm »

Quote from: Reverend P. Babcock Chase
I guess Rodeos had a different serial range than the standard models. Anyone have info on this?

Every thing helps.  Much appreciated.

"Rodeo serial begins with various single letter (aka A were the first as far as I know)  followed by 3 digits"
Also there were a LHXXX series of custom Rodeos from Longhunter's shop.

I have seen guns with prefixs of  A, E, G, K, L.

More here:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,54840.0.html   
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yahoody
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 11:10:32 pm »

So far my guess has been any thing but an A is USA...but it is only a guess.  I have a 300+ series LH that came with a Italian hammer.   So early "A"s are not the only Italian parts in a Rodeo I have seen.

But not seen a B or a C or a D Smiley
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yahoody
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2015, 11:20:29 pm »

I should call LH and see when mine were built.
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yahoody
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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2015, 11:45:10 pm »



no clue what hammer on this one...



cone firing pins on these Rodeo II

sorry no dates but some data worth filing away
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Monsai52
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« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2015, 12:03:34 am »

So far my guess has been any thing but an A is USA...but it is only a guess.  I have a 300+ series LH that came with a Italian hammer.   So early "A"s are not the only Italian parts in a Rodeo I have seen.

But not seen a B or a C or a D Smiley

My Rodeo is D892, case coloured hammer and cone firing pin.  Bought it used early last year.

Best regards,
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RVK
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« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2015, 11:12:21 am »

Henry Nettleton Artillery Model w/ 5.5 inch barrel.  HN 47191.  Was ordered in the Fall of 1999 and shipped from USFA on Dec 01, 1999 as indicated in the USFA Historical Letter.
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yahoody
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« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2015, 11:58:44 am »

RVK good stuff thank you.

Can you tell me if his is the hammer in your Neddleton gun?

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Rodeo Romeo
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« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2015, 01:54:46 pm »

Rodeos all;
matte blue all;
USA parts all;
  LH154 undated
  D889 July 2003
  E134 August 2003
  G130 September 2003
  G372 November 2003
  G916 undated
  K432 undated
  SKA050 October 2007
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Wellington
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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2015, 05:08:21 pm »

Hello-

I am new to the forum and a big fan of USFA & Colts. I would like to contribute to Yahoody and the USFA research project he is taking on.

Gunslinger model is a 357 S&W CTG s-n 589xx and the engraved Turnbull/USFA is SP1xx.
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Pettifogger
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2015, 09:59:37 pm »

Does anyone know the total number of guns USFA produced?
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yahoody
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2015, 10:16:56 pm »

they are still producing new guns.  Just no SAA guns obviously.
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« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2015, 02:19:29 am »

they are still producing new guns.  Just no SAA guns obviously.

USFA is dead and gone.  There may still be the ZipFactory but you know darn well that is not what we are talking about.
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yahoody
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« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2015, 12:10:33 pm »

"USFA is dead and gone"

Actually according to the BATF and the records keeping they are still alive and well and still making guns.

I wasn't intentionally trying to be obtuse.  Just making the point.  The owner of the FFL..in this case Doug Donnelly, I'd assume, has the FFL records.  That is the only record that I know of that would offer the info requested accurately and only then if the books were  kept well.  Past employee admissions and BATF suggestions makes that seem unlikely.  The same books that were kept during SAA production would hold the info requested if you could get Donnelly to tally and release it.   Same books that would continue to record the Zip guns or anything else Donnelly decides to make under the USFA name.

Even that info seems tainted and useless IMO..because every Uberti, then every Italian clone they marked USPFA and USFA and then every Frankenstein Uberti gun built, then eventually, every USA made gun would all be in his bound book.  No requirement to separate any of them.  Only that the numbers be in sequence.   On the USPFA and USFA guns it hardly matters at some point if you look into the various generations and build quality from USFA.  Frankly the differences are a bit of a nightmare.

An example.."how many Uberti guns were built under the USPFA name?"  Or How many Uberti guns were built under the USFA name?" or "How many guns were made with parts from both Uberti and USA made parts?"  Makes the original question rather obtuse....in my opinion.

Colt's records by comparison are a treasure trove of very accurate history.



 
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« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2015, 01:49:36 pm »

Did USFA have a plant outside of Connecticutt?  I am doing some research in the BATF files to see what production was reported.  I can find the semi-autos and revolvers.  But, oddly enough, I cannot find any references to USFA rifles.  The records are by state, so I am wondering if the Lightning parts were made/assembled outside of Conn.  After I get done I'll post what I have found.
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yahoody
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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2015, 01:55:39 pm »

Among other things of interest might be how black powder firearm's production numbers were separated from the center fire arms in ATF records.
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2015, 02:11:27 pm »

Among other things of interest might be how black powder firearm's production numbers were separated from the center fire arms in ATF records.

If you mean C&B, they aren't.  C&Bs aren't considered firearms.
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  USFA CSS (Moderator: Capt. John Fitzgerald)  |  Topic: Serial Numbers - Let's Support Yahoody! « previous next »
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