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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  USFA CSS (Moderator: Capt. John Fitzgerald)  |  Topic: USFA Sherriffs model value 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: USFA Sherriffs model value  (Read 3166 times)
markg44
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« on: March 24, 2015, 05:04:23 pm »


New member here,  big single action fan. Just recently bought my first USFA, NOW I'm hooked! I've spotted a 4" ejectorless sheriffs model ,NIB with real ivory grips. What would be a fair price to pay for this beauty ? I would greatly appreciate your input.
 Thanks,
  Mark
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Capt. John Fitzgerald
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2015, 10:11:23 pm »

Mark,
Welcome to the forum!
Does the Sheriff's Model have a concave or a conical firing pin?  If conical, there is a good chance that it is an all US made gun.  That is not conclusive, but a very good indicator.  When USFA went "all US made" they went to the conical style firing pin.  Older, Italian (Uberti) parts guns used the concave pin.  another indicator, though harder to spot with an untrained eye, is the shape of the cylinder flutes.  Italian flutes come to a somewhat pointed end while the US made cylinder flutes are more rounded.
USFA started out in 1993. VERY early guns were marked USPatentFA (or USPFA).  Around 1994 the company name was changed to USFA as the result of the threat of legal action taken by Colt.  First guns were imported assembled in the white and then finished here.  Later Italian guns were imported in parts and assembled here.  Around the end of 2001 USFA started manufacturing their guns here in the US, using CNC machinery, and used solid blocks of steel, rather than castings, to manufacture frames.  
There seems to be much debate about the US vs. Italian, Uberti parts, guns.  Let's face it, Uberti makes a pretty good gun and USFA took those parts and made them even better.  The only guns I would avoid would be those marked USPFA.
As WWYS said, pictures would help but might not be practical for a gun you do not have in your possession.  Give us as much info as you can and we will give you all the help we can.
CJF
  
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markg44
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2015, 07:58:39 am »

Hi Guys,
  Thanks for the greetings and the info. I haven't seen the gun in person yet, got a call from a friend who saw it and thought that I might be interested. I'm fairly familiar with the UFSA history, but have never really seen many in person. I check out the auction sites, and see prices seem to be going crazy. This is NIB, unturned and real ivories, with $2800 price tag. Anyway I'm going to check it out this weekend and get more info . Thanks again for your help.
Mark
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Pangaea
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2015, 11:24:06 am »

Mark,

For what it is worth, here's my take on it.  Every time you look at or handle that pistol, you will always feel a sense of pride in owning such a fine piece of workmanship.  A thing of beauty, that if taken care of, will never fade.  Don't let a few hundred dollars stop you from buying an heirloom that you will cherish for many, many years to come and hopefully one you can pass on to your son or daughter. 

Philip
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yahoody
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2015, 12:16:38 pm »

Quote
This is NIB, unturned and real ivories, with $2800 price tag.

Hi Mark,
Here is my take on it FWIW.  4" guns without an ejector are reasonably rare.  But then again not very popular either.  Fun guns but not for everyone.  It wouldn't be the first USFA gun I'd buy even at a discount.  But it is a gun I have lusted over in the past.  And because of that own several now.   

The best USFA guns (Premiums and Prewars) typically can still be had at or close to $2000.  Ivory from Nutmeg is $650 return included or from Gunner Products, $100 off that @ $550.  Both are exceptional IMO.  Nutmeg with a slight edge on profile, painful on the $s and a little faster on delivery.

Agree with Phillip how ever, if it is a gun you really want I'd not be too concerned on the price.  It is a little/lot high ($500)  IMO.  But I looked around for a long time prior to finding my 4" Sheriffs' Models.   And that was a year ago now.  Not like they are making any more of them Smiley 

A caveat how ever...most of the 4" guns are Italian parts guns and not USA guns.   One of the reasons they aren't all that popular.  Also many were delivered in the white, as in no finish.  Others were 2nd rate (compared to Turnbull) blue and case finishes.   It is a buyer beware market on these guns.   People are charging a lot of money for some guns that simply IMO are not worth the money.
Cone firing pin or tapered firing pin?  BP rear V sights or square notch?   

$2800 would get you a 4" Sheriff's or almost any other Colt (Nickel or B/C finish) with factory ivory as a comparison.

No question USFA built some amazing guns.  How ever I wouldn't consider most of the 4" ejectorless guns full members of that community.  I could easily be wrong but I'd sure want to know the right questions to ask first before shelling out $2800.
   
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yahoody
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2015, 03:52:12 pm »

I looked around a bit today.

As an example..here is a legit 3", USA gun, engraved and Prewar finish.  Add a set of ivory from Nutmeg ($650) and you are at $2800.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/916904124/USFA-SAA-SHERRIF-S-MODEL-45-COLT-3-INCH-ENGRAVED-NEW-IN-BOX.htm

Or what at least appears to be an up graded USA Storekeeper with $400 in deluxe wood grips, turned down hammer (2nd I have seen, last I knew a member here had the other Smiley and a ejector rod.  $2800

http://www.gunsinternational.com/US-FIREARMS-STOREKEEPER.cfm?gun_id=100491646&CFID=42660308&CFTOKEN=75f02caf0e9cee6a-3B0329E6-90B1-1C3E-AE808B7FB5243BF6
 
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Capt. John Fitzgerald
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2015, 08:20:02 pm »

WWYS,
I seem to fit into that USFA over Turnbull mindset that you allude to.  Turnbull guns, while made up of USFA parts, were marked Turnbull.  In my opinion, there is a provenance attached to USFA that those Turnbull revolvers will never have.
CJF

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yahoody
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2015, 09:44:55 pm »

Quote
Turnbull guns, while made up of USFA parts, were marked Turnbull.  In my opinion, there is a provenance attached to USFA that those Turnbull revolvers will never have.

Depends on how they were marked.  There were two different and distinct sets of "Turnbull guns".  The Turnbull stamped with a circle "raging bull", Open Range, SAA revolvers I would not care to own.   The USFA guns, with Turnbull's best grade Prewar finish and USFA marked adding DT serial numbers I like A lot.  Never a big fan of the "partial" cylinder engraving that Adams and Adams did on a very limited number of the USFS, DT serial numbered, guns but it has grown on me over time.   

Always felt like Turnbull was just jumping on the USFA band wagon by marking and marketing the "Open Range" revolvers.   I consider him a refinisher (and use him  quite a lot actually for that)  but not a manufacture.  Much as he and the BATF might disagree.

Anyway, again just one opinion, but I think the DT/USFA guns are likely the best finished USFA guns ever produced.  Turnbull's shop received them in pieces,  put them together, timed them and finished them all in house for USFA at their highest level of fit and finish.   His reputation would be measured by those guns for some time to come.  I think they did well on the measure and upped the ante as the "best" of the  USFA production guns.  Every bit the equal to the USFA Prewar guns which Turnbull did as well.  Hopefully the DT serial numbered USFA guns below illustrates my point.   Other than the serial number with a suffix or prefix of DT there is no difference between it and a any late model Prewar USFA.  Internally the Turnbull crew put them together instead of the USFA crew.  Suspect that is really a toss up either way on who did the better work.   

If nothing else within the Prewar Series of USFA guns any DT serial numbered gun is going to be more rare with less than 500 produced.  "This run started in 2002 and ran to about 2008 with less than 500 pieces produced, numbered 001 to 500".  Factory engraved within that select group?  Obviously those guns will be even more rare.




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Pangaea
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2015, 10:47:01 pm »

From what I've learned on this forum, especially from the statements made by Yahoody as to the features of the Italian parts made guns, I do have a number of them I bought.  One is a 4 inch Sheriff model.  It has the conical firing pin, a white trigger and the case coloring on the hammer & frame are not the same vibrant colors on the later models.  It seems like a fairly solid gun, just not overly built like the others. 

Some of the other Italian parts guns that I have, have a much higher defgree of polish and seem to be fitted fairly well.  The doulble eagles I have have serial numbers in the 70xxx, the Nettletons in the 47xxx, several storekeepers with a prefix of SKDxxx, Custer Battlefileds with 6688 & 6746.  I have one that is supposed to be 1 of 15 anniversary model with a serial 8USFA, it is also engraved.

I like most all of them, some much better than others.  I have not seen any pictures of pistols on here that I would not take home to meet my mother.
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markg44
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2015, 08:30:27 am »

I looked around a bit today.

As an example..here is a legit 3", USA gun, engraved and Prewar finish.  Add a set of ivory from Nutmeg ($650) and you are at $2800.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/916904124/USFA-SAA-SHERRIF-S-MODEL-45-COLT-3-INCH-ENGRAVED-NEW-IN-BOX.htm

Or what at least appears to be an up graded USA Storekeeper with $400 in deluxe wood grips, turned down hammer (2nd I have seen, last I knew a member here had the other Smiley and a ejector rod.  $2800

http://www.gunsinternational.com/US-FIREARMS-STOREKEEPER.cfm?gun_id=100491646&CFID=42660308&CFTOKEN=75f02caf0e9cee6a-3B0329E6-90B1-1C3E-AE808B7FB5243BF6
 
I saw both of those, not crazy about the engraving on the 3'' actually not crazy about 3"s period, I do like the 4", I much prefer seeing the gun in person ,it's so easy to miss things in pictures.
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yahoody
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2015, 11:09:59 am »

I should clarify this,
"Depends on how they were marked.  There were two different and distinct sets of "Turnbull guns".  The Turnbull guns stamped with a circle "raging bull", Open Range, SAA revolvers I would not care to own."

The Open Range revolvers are 100% USFA guns, just different roll markings for Turnbull manufacturing.

While I am a big fan of the turn of the century Colt's with a circled Colt Pony....a bull in the circle is less tasteful than a Unicorn IMO :-)   The Unicorn I get.  The Bull not so much unless it is a Taurus.  Not a fan of Taurus firearms either.

Unicorn


Colt




Turnbull
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2017, 04:13:33 pm »

I am the opposite, I am a huge fan of USFA and Turnbull who is a master at restoration and correct finishes from the time period.
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