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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Barracks (Moderators: Delmonico, Pitspitr)  |  Topic: Care and feeding of the Krag 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Care and feeding of the Krag  (Read 24413 times)
CPL Jayhawker Jake
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« on: February 18, 2015, 10:49:40 am »


Just a note CPL:  You do not have to have a uniform to shoot the main match.  (Just don't show up in a ball cap and sneakers!)  If you need the money for the rifle, get the rifle first.  Clothes are easy to do anytime, especially this uniform.  

Let us know how it goes.  Sporterized Krags are often lower priced, and can be remilitarized to Carbine spec fairly easily.

Krag--Check



Now for the uniform.  And learn how to shoot the Krag.  Roll Eyes
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Niederlander
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 12:31:07 pm »

Very cool!  If you ever decide to shoot it with the bayonet attached, make sure the bayonet is completely latched.  Let's just say I know bad things happen if you don't!
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Pitspitr
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 01:40:58 pm »

Krag--Check
And learn how to shoot the Krag.  Roll Eyes
One of the most important things we've learned is to make certain the OCL is right. If you use too short a bullet the cartridge won't feed. Scruffy Skippy makes a good 220 gr RN lead bullet. 402-276-1391
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Niederlander
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 04:22:23 pm »

Pitsptr is right about overall cartridge length.  We saw one a few years back loaded with 150 grain bullets, and it was a jam-a-matic.  I was amazed at the time because I'd shot a Krag for years without even one jam.  Then again, I've only ever used 220 grain bullets, which is what it was designed for.  I think Drydock uses 180 grain bullets with complete success, but I'd ask him what he uses to be sure.  Trailboss is great for what we do.  Just fill the case to the base of the bullet.
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pony express
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 05:44:47 pm »

Not sure what Drydock uses, but mine are a pointed bullet from a Lyman mould, I think they weigh in about 185gr. Made the mistake of trying some 165gr flat point 30-30 cast one time. Just ONE time. Those didn't agree with my '03 either. It's when you use the short bullets that you have to carefully place the rounds in the magazine one at a time to avoid rimlock. If they're long enough, you just dump a handful in the mag and close it, they align themselves fine.
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Drydock
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 05:51:25 pm »

I use the Lee 200, melted chilled shot, unsized, cheapest gas checks I can find, crimped in the crimp groove.  2.5cc dipper Trail Boss and a WLR primer.  Slicker'n snot on a doorknob.  Hornday 220 and 40 grains IMR 4350 for a Milspec load that shoots to the sights.
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Drydock
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 05:56:05 pm »

I use the Lee 200, melted chilled shot, unsized, cheapest gas checks I can find, crimped in the crimp groove.  2.5cc dipper Trail Boss and a WLR primer.  Slicker'n snot on a doorknob.  Hornday 220 and 40 grains IMR 4350 for a Milspec load that shoots to the sights.

BTW, looks like a very nice M1896 with the M1898/02 tangent sight.  If that's an actual 1896, and not an 1898 in an earlier stock, it probably saw action.  We gonna get you up to speed fast on that one.
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Niederlander
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 06:05:01 pm »

Not sure what Drydock uses, but mine are a pointed bullet from a Lyman mould, I think they weigh in about 185gr. Made the mistake of trying some 165gr flat point 30-30 cast one time. Just ONE time. Those didn't agree with my '03 either. It's when you use the short bullets that you have to carefully place the rounds in the magazine one at a time to avoid rimlock. If they're long enough, you just dump a handful in the mag and close it, they align themselves fine.

One thing I like about the 220 grain Lyman I use........it works great in the '03 as well.  I cast mine from wheel weights and use Lee liquid Alox.  My gas checks are from Gator.
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CPL Jayhawker Jake
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 07:44:40 pm »

BTW, looks like a very nice M1896 with the M1898/01 tangent sight.  If that's an actual 1896, and not an 1898 in an earlier stock, it probably saw action.  We gonna get you up to speed fast on that one.

It is a 1896, and if the site I've been using to date my surplus rifles is accurate, was made in 1896.  I think the sight is the M1902, as it has the slightly larger "bump" in the side, and has the small "peep" sight that can be clicked into position along with the notch.

Thanks for the load data, everybody.  I'm not quite up to the level of casting my own bullets yet, but I do plan on working up some loads for this soon.  Good to know that flat point bullets are a no-go, since I've been looking at some for both this and my '03 on Midway.
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pony express
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2015, 10:27:38 pm »

It's not so much the flat point, but the overall length. I think a Krag would feed full wadcutters, if they were just long enough! I don't remember exactly what the flat point 30-30 bullets did in my '03, just that they didn't work well.
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Niederlander
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2015, 10:33:55 pm »

If you ever do start casting your own, keep in mind the Lyman (then Ideal) 210 grain bullet was specifically designed for the Krag.  Perhaps that's why it works so well!
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Pitspitr
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 11:10:26 am »

I'm not quite up to the level of casting my own bullets yet, but I do plan on working up some loads for this soon.

I can cast, but I've found that I have time to cast,... OR...I have time to reload. I don't have time to do both.
Like I said;

Scruffy Skippy makes a good 220 gr RN lead bullet. 402-276-1391

These are what I use.
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2015, 11:18:10 am »

Where do you find the brass?

Quick Fire
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Pitspitr
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2015, 11:23:56 am »

30/40 Brass usually isn't too hard to find. I've found some at gun shows. Sometimes folks acquire some that they don't need and they'll sell it. Midway or places like that usually have it. Sometimes I just buy modern loads shoot them for practice or hunting or whatever and then reload them with the loads and powder I want.
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Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2015, 11:40:21 am »

Midway and my other usual sources for brass don't have any 30-40.Krag. They do have Remington loaded ammo, but I'll wait to see if anyone near home has some so I don't have to pay shipping. Yea I'm cheap! Grin
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Pitspitr
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2015, 12:57:18 pm »

Keep an eye out for it they have it at least from time to time
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2015, 05:56:56 pm »

Back to the bullets-forgot to mention that the groove diameters tend to run large, My Krag likes at least .310 diameter bullets.
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Drydock
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2015, 09:26:34 pm »

Because you guys are hijacking the uniform thread!

Krags are OAL sensitive.  The greatest mistake is the use of too light, too short bullets.  OAL should always be greater than 2.80.  Fortunately the long case neck gives great flexibility in bullet usage, but no real need to go below 170 grains.  Proper length will give slick feeding, and allow the cases to align naturally in the magazine.  

The Double Row Mills belt is absolutely essential, it is part of the rifle system.  Just as much as stripper clips are needed to properly utilize the 03 Springfield, a Krag cannot be truly operated without the Mills belt designed for it.  Grabbing a blind handful of cartridges from the belt places them properly in the hand for loading.  You will always come up with either 4,5, or 6, all of which can be used.  1, 2 or 3 is possible with just the thumb and one or two fingers for topping off.  

Grabbing with the LEFT hand from the belt will also place the cartridges in that hand best for loading as well, across the top and into the hopper.

The Krag magazine is traditionally referred to as a "Hopper" magazine.

Grabbing a handful with the right hand will place the cartridges across the palm, with the rims against the heel of the palm.  You will squeeze them between the thumb, index and middle fingers, letting them drop at a slight nose down attitude into the hopper.  (I talk at length, but this mostly happens without thought, the only real thought needed is to maintain the cartridge nose down as it drops)  If the cartridges are the proper length, they will automatically align for feeding when the hopper gate is closed.

Simply grabbing 2 by the rims with thumb and two fingers will allow you to literally throw them into the hopper with little thought.

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Niederlander
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2015, 07:04:13 am »

Yep, I think Chuck has pretty well covered it.  One of the nice things about the .30 U.S. round is that specific powder/bullet combinations don't seem to make that much difference.  Any suitable bullet over any suitable powder tends to shoot very well without any fussing.  Tempramental it's not!
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Charles Isaac
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2015, 09:41:15 am »




This is one of the reasons I love the GAF-Colonel Drydock is actually trying to tell you HOW to beat him! So many people in various organizations would rather let you walk in stupid, then commence to whipping your a$$ in competition! Why tell someone how to do your job when they might get better than you at it?-Because some people think it's the RIGHT thing to do!

Colonel Niederlander sent out instructions for winter practice that was designed to keep shooting skills honed during the off-season-yet another example of a competitor actually HELPING someone that he will potentially compete against!

This is one of the hallmarks of the GAF, and why they continue to be an exclusive and elite organization!!! Cheesy



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Drydock
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2015, 04:14:25 pm »

As has been said, the .30 US is not a hard round to load.  And if ever a bottleneck case was made for cast bullets, it's this one.

There are those who will say the Krag will not feed Spitzers.  This is flat wrong.  The Krag will not feed SHORT spitzers.  If the OAL is within spec, the shape of the nose means next to nothing.  Flat, pointed, round, hollow point, the Krag will eat them all, as long as OAL is maintained.

For a military load that shoots to the sights, the search begins and ends with IMR 4350.  40 grains under a 220 Jacketed RN duplicates the pressures, velocity's, and numbers on the rim of the original.  As good a target or open sight hunting load as you will find for any Krag.  Lighter bullets can be used, and other powders, but this is the one if you want to know what Teddy Roosevelts shoulder felt like.

For close in steel plate shooting, any lead bullet 180 or more grains is fine, over a 3/4 case of Trail Boss.  Set the sight between 4 and 6 and you'll be right on target from 100 yds in.  See the Trail Boss KISS topic above.

Krags can vary in bore dimensions, Mine are both just under .309.  But they can go larger, though I've yet to slug one over .310.  Not saying they're not out there though.  Check yours and plan accordingly.  Mostly I think its 100 years of wear.  My M1898 Infantry is pretty much worn out, so I've got a brand new CMP Krag barrel waiting to go into it one of these days.  These barrels are a great deal IMHO, and any worn out Krag can be transformed by one.

http://estore.thecmp.org/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=catalogList&cat=BAR
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CPL Jayhawker Jake
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2015, 08:29:54 pm »

THANK YOU DRYDOCK!!!!   Grin

I know I'm probably a good reason why the uniform thread got derailed, sorry about that.  Thanks again for the load info.
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Drydock
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2015, 08:52:38 pm »

You need one of these now Corporal!

http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=L54
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CPL Jayhawker Jake
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2015, 10:43:09 pm »

You need one of these now Corporal!

http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=L54

Yes I do.  Between this and the links in the Uniform thread, I know where a decent chunk of my next paycheck will be going.  Roll Eyes
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GAF #827
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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2015, 11:39:22 pm »

I managed to get an original belt on e-bay.  I was very lucky as it was in great shape and cost me only $60.00
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