Author Topic: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry  (Read 7186 times)

Offline Buck Stinson

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Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« on: January 25, 2015, 02:46:36 PM »
Back in the late 1980's, I purchased new, an Allen Firearms Henry in .44-40.  I've shot several thousand rounds through this rifle, but I've always loaded with black powder.  Thinking of going with a smokeless load and was wondering what powder choice you use behind a 205 grain lead bullet.  I have lots of Trail Boss, Unique and several others that I use in my original 1873's and Colt pistols, but before I make up anything for my Henry, I'd like some ideas.  Not interested in any hard steel banging loads, just something safe yet accurate to 100 yards.  Thanks for the help.







Offline major

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2015, 03:28:51 PM »
I loaded my 1860 Henry with 5.3 gr. of Alliant Promo, a .429 size bullet that is 200gr.  I shoot the same load out of my Uberti Smoke Wagon revolvers in 44-40.  According to Alliant this should produce a bullet at about 800 FPS.  I recently sold my Henry and now I shoot them out of a Uberti 1873 carbine.  Works great for me in CAS.
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2015, 03:31:56 PM »
This is where I take the easy way out.  I've shot a bundle of that hethen fad stuff.  However, ALL four of my Henry rifles have long been set up for 45 Cowboy Special as they are, obviously all .45s
That said, when it comes to smokeless as opposed to BP, I always hesitate to provide load data, as all rifles are slightly different and your results may not be the same as mine.  I also trust NO ONE to reload my ammunition.  Ever.  SO:  
Taking the easy way out, i would suggest a browse thru several reloading manuals.  Begin at the starting load and work your way up if need arrises.  Also, Please Please remember, if your even tempted, fillers can have disastrous effects on many smokeless powders.

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #3 on: Today at 06:04:27 PM »

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2015, 03:50:05 PM »
Well, Buck, I've been using Unique for a while in my 44-40 guns, including my Henry.  It leaves a lot of residue in the barrel, but it wipes right out with the first patch.  It works great for me.  I've heard that Trailboss works well for light to medium loads too, so you should be able to put together something that will work for you.

By the way, I remember visiting your house a number of years ago and seeing a Henry on display.  I thought it was an original until you set me straight.  It's the same rifle, I assume.  I keep thinking of begging you for another visit--I kind of rushed the first one!

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Offline King Medallion

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2015, 10:11:00 PM »
I use 4.5 grains of Trail Boss, very accurate in my 66, 92, 75 Remington's, and Colts. All bullets are .428.
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Offline Buck Stinson

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2015, 10:38:40 AM »
Greatly appreciate all the comments and suggestions.  I'm going to try the same Unique and Trail Boss loads I use for my single actions.  I'll think they'll work just fine.  I've loaded ammo for 50 years, so I'll find a good one for this brass gun.  I just needed a few suggestions from the forum. 

Coal Creek, I looked at my guest book and you and your family visited us in late June 2005.  Things have changed a lot since you were here.  I've sold off a lot of guns and cowboy gear, but keep adding a little more here and there.  High quality items are getting hard to find.    We down sized the collection by around 500 pieces in the past five or six years, but it's still wall to wall, floor to ceiling.  If you're in the area, stop by.  Yes, I think this is probably the same Henry you saw.  Thanks again for the help folks.

Offline sail32

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2015, 10:47:40 AM »
Try Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition.

Offline Buck Stinson

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2015, 11:58:02 AM »
sail32,
I have that one and will check it out this evening.  Thanks for the heads-up.

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2015, 06:29:51 PM »
Buck, I mostly use Trail Boss and Titegroup for smokeless 44-40 loads. I've noticed the Titegroup has the edge on accuracy in most guns I've put on paper. Your guns may not agree but that has been my experience.
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Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2015, 07:05:36 PM »
Buck:

Nearly 10 years.  Wow.  I still prize the holster and belt you made for me.

One thing I meant to mention on this topic is bullet size.  I don't know about your Henry, but my modern 44-40 guns prefer a .429 bullet, which is likely larger than your originals take.  I know you often load with vintage Winchester loading tools.  My Winchester mould drops bullets closer to .427 and I just can't get any accuracy with my reproductions shooting those bullets.  It's sad, but that mould and my Winchester reloading tool are pretty much display items at this point.

I'm sure, with your experience, you know this, but I mention it particularly for others who may come upon this thread looking for advice.

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Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2015, 10:34:57 AM »
I did shoot smokes (somewhat) less in my1860 Henry when I started fire forming .44-40 brass to .45 Colt trying to control the blow-by in my .45 Colt chambered rifle. Mostly I did that because it was faster and easier to clean the rifle and brass up afterward. I used the recommended .44-40 charge of IMR Trail Boss™ which worked perfectly.

I found, however, that I could fire form and compete at the same time in FC category with properly prepared cases loaded with a 200 grain boolet and a slightly compressed load of FFFg, thus saving time, lead, and smokes(somewhat)less powder for my daughter who still shoots the heathen stuff.

One daughter shoots heathen powder the other a Glock.

Where did I go wrong?

I digress… by fire forming .44-40 to use in a .45 Colt chamber the blow back is reduced to a minimum amount. After shooting a 60 round match my lifter was only slightly tarnished and the action was clear and easily cleaned up with a fast wipe of Hoppe’s #9.

 I loaded 200 grain Big Lube® hand cast boolets lubed with an SPG clone of my own making. The fouling stayed soft and cleaning up was a snap.

Respectfully submitted
Bunk

Offline Buck Stinson

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2015, 12:16:59 PM »
Thanks for the input Bunk.  I have a lot of Trail Boss, so that's where I'll start.

Coal Creek,
I've had original 73's in .44-40 with bore sizes from .427 to .431 depending on the date of manufacture.  Most of my early first model and a couple of second models seemed to have larger bores.  My third models all have .427 as do my single actions.  I use only original Winchester tools and molds when reloading all of the 1876 Winchester calibers, but I shoot so many .44-40 and .38-40 rounds, it's much faster to use my RCBS dies.

Offline Trailrider

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2015, 02:04:26 PM »
I have used Hodgdon's UNIVERSAL for years, including putting over 3,000 rounds through my Navy Arms Henry. The load I use is 8.0 gr. UNIVERSAL behind a 213.5 gr. .430" dia. Master Craft RNFP bullet. Headspace, by actual measuremnet has NOT changed. I use Winchester brass and WLP primers.  UNIVERSAL is a very slightly faster than Unique, but burns a lot cleaner.  Velocity from the 24" barrel is about 1185-1200 ft/sec depending on air temperature. I don't shoot the Henry much anymore, due to the weight distribution (muzzle heavy) being hard on my old, aching back! Same loads work great in my Ruger OM Vaqueros, with the .425" throats! MV = 950 ft/sec from a 7-1/2" barrel. Accuracy runs 1-5/8" from the bench, at 25 yds.

If you are using Trail Boss, I suggest you go NO LOWER than the middle charge weight shown in the manuals.
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Offline tommy4toes

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Re: Shooting smokeless loads in the Henry
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2015, 10:39:41 PM »
I, too, hesitate to provide smokeless load data for a brass frame Henry. Mine developed a headspace issue after a few years of shooting smokeless. IMHO.

Tommy4toes

 

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