Money belt help

[texaswoodworker]

Does anyone know where I could get a pattern/instructions on making a classic (period correct) money/cartridge belt? I've looked, but I'm not having much luck finding any.

Thanks.

[Slowhand Bob]

I do know there are one or two money belt patterns in the Ghormley Belts Pattern Pack.  As with all of his patterns, this is a winner and all the little notations have better information than you can find in most crafty belt books!

[texaswoodworker]

Thanks, I'll have to get one.

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[Slowhand Bob]

I think Chuck Burrows used to make a WHOLE lot of the money belts and they were beautiful, might want to contact him for something more specific.  His home page can be found here and it is great place to get lost, just admiring his talent.  The few I made were either folded and glued in such a way as to create a fake money belt and/or frequently had an internal strap of 3/4oz leather sandwiched inside.  When tried in any other way, I just did not have the knack.     

[Cliff Fendley]

Before my recent arm problems close to half of my belt orders were money belts. I actually prefer to make them over a regular lined belt.

You will make it like any other belt with billets by attaching the billets and cartridge loops positioned so they are on the front side of the main body.

After attaching those parts you fold the main body and sew it all the way around except for the end. Some are actually sewn on the end leaving only a slot but most I make and most originals I have had the opportunity to study had the end open and is held shut by threading the buckle strap through the main body before going through the buckle.

Here are some pictures that will let you see the front and back and the buckle end.

[Black River Smith]

What size leather do you use for a money belt?  Most listed in Packing Iron state medium weight but saw one website that stated they use 5 oz.

What have you found that stands up to the gun weight without excessive bending and giving of shape?

I am planning on making my first money very soon.  My other belts have alway been strapping of heavy weight.

Thanks

[Cliff Fendley]

Ask for 4/5 oz if you want it a bit firmer so the edges are not likely to roll. 3/4 oz is probably more period correct and probably what I prefer best.

When I am picking out leather for money belts I choose from either stack and use the thickness gauge and pick the sides that are as close to 4oz as +/- as I can get. If I'm having it split from skirting leather or buying from Wicket and Craig I ask them to split it as close to 4 oz as possible +/-

The darker colored rig in the middle picture above is actually 5-6 oz. It works good if you want a heavier belt that definitely holds it's shape but I prefer using thinner leather.

[Black River Smith]

Cliff,

Thanks for the guidance.

[Slowhand Bob]

A realy attractive belt can be made from heavy upholstry leather or a working chaps weight leather also.

[Silver_Rings]

I have made several money belts with 3 oz leather because old ones were made of lighter leather.  The lighter leather conforms to my body better than heavier leather and is more comfortable, but my knife sheaf compresses the belt and looks sloppy.  My last 2 money belts I made of light leather, but I glued the folded leather together, then sewed through both pieces using a diamond pattern to stiffen the leather.  I then sewed on the bullet loops.  This gave me the light weight and flexibility that I want yet keeps the belt from scrunching down from the weight of the knife sheaf.  Since there is no pocket in the belt it is not a true money belt.

Silver Rings

[Black River Smith]

Another question for those that make present day money belts for sale or for themselves.

What width is the most common requested or made?  The common sizes as listed in Packing Iron are 2, 2 1/2 or 3 inches.

Now, I am having to make one that is 2 3/4" as the largest cut from the leather piece I bought from Tandy.

So, I am trying to decide whether to leave it at 2 3/4, as something different, or make it a final 2 1/2" for authenticity.  This is for a 38/40 cartridge by the way.  Another question comes up with adding that last info.  Does the cartridge that the belt is made for affect the buyers or makers desicion about size width?

[Camano Ridge]

Black River, for the most part money belts are usually 3" and larger. I think most of the museum examples I have seen have been 3 -4" although I have seen smaller widths as well. Paking Iron says cartridge money belts ranged 3-4"s ( page pg 178). However they show a 2 3/4"  and a 2 1/2" example. The size I get the most request for is 3". Now just to clarify, you said the largest cut would allow you a 2 3/4" belt. So you are syaing that you can cut a 5 1/2"- 6" piece to fold in half? Remeber you will loose a little in height because of the fold. So if you start out with 5 1/2" piece when you fold it in half the folded piece will be less then 2 3/4" high, depending on the thickness of your leather it may be closer to 2 1/2".

[Cliff Fendley]

Another question for those that make present day money belts for sale or for themselves.

What width is the most common requested or made?  The common sizes as listed in Packing Iron are 2, 2 1/2 or 3 inches.

Now, I am having to make one that is 2 3/4" as the largest cut from the leather piece I bought from Tandy.

So, I am trying to decide whether to leave it at 2 3/4, as something different, or make it a final 2 1/2" for authenticity.  This is for a 38/40 cartridge by the way.  Another question comes up with adding that last info.  Does the cartridge that the belt is made for affect the buyers or makers desicion about size width?

3 inch is probably my most common but 3 1/2 would be a very close second. They pretty much run neck and neck as the most requested.

Most originals I see range from 3 to 3 1/2 also. Seldom ever see one less than 3 inch so I'm not sure why 2 1/2 would be more authentic than 2 3/4. I think the wider you can make it from your material would be more authentic.

Cartridge doesn't matter on belt width, I make all my bullets loops 1 inch and that is what most originals have.

[Black River Smith]

Camano Ridge,
I am using PI page 168, the L Frank ad as my reference for the size listings.  I did reread the belt text and found one reference to a 2 3/4" belt.

To your second comment, yes the total width that I was able to get for a max length of 43" was only 5 1/2.  I am thinning the material  to about 4-4.5 as Cliff suggested in an earlier posting.

Cliff,
Thanks for guidance about the 1in loops.  I was going to use 7/8" because it was what I worked off of before and is listed as a loop size in PI on page 178 belt ad.  I will try the 1 in though

Here is a link to Home of the Plainsman - Photo of Al Sieber.  http://lastoftheplainsmen.freeforums.org/al-sieber-chief-scout-t3478.html    What size belt would you estimate he has on?  Do you think pistol or rifle cartridges?

Thanks

[Cliff Fendley]

That sketch looks to me more like a canvas (Mills type) belt than a typical leather cartridge/money belt.

[Buck Stinson]

I have had and still have many original maker marked money belts in my collection.  They range in width from 2 1/2" to 4".  Most of these 4" wide belts have a double row of cartridge loops.  But, I do have a Meanea single row belt that is 4" wide.  This rig is pictured on page 121 in Packing Iron.  I've had this rig for nearly 30 years.  The original Meanea catalogs I have including the one in that photo, list folded belts (money belts) from 2 1/2" to 4" in width.  I've owned a lot of Meanea marked money belts, but I don't think I've ever seen one that was 2 1/2" wide.  Even his very early photo advertising cards (1882 to 1897) list these same widths.  I have made a number of 2 1/2" money belts for customers who ask for them, but for the past 37 years the 3" and 4" have been the standard offering in my catalog.  I personally like the 3", as I think it looks best with any barrel length holster and it is certainly the most comfortable to wear. 

[Black River Smith]

I want to thank everyone for the help on my first money/cartridge belt.  I finally completed it last week.

My 2 3/4" ended up 3/32" narrower as warned but oh well.  This was my first attempt with spots, also.  They turned out just fine with the 1" cartridge strap and spacing for 20 loops on this, my belt.  Have not put a revolver/holster on the belt, so do not know how it will hold-up, yet.

Cliff, you do not have to worry about any customer competition from me, your talent and skills produce belts and holsters that are way nicer than this one.  But the work has been for my own satisfaction.

Thanks all, for sharing your knowledge and experience.

BRS

[Camano Ridge]

Congratulation on the completion. I have one question. Where's the picture?  

[Cliff Fendley]

Glad to hear you got it completed. I don't know if I mentioned before but I cut the leather for the body 1/8 inch wider to allow for the fold.

3 inch belt I cut the belt body 6 1/8 wide. 

3 1/4 inch cut it 6 5/8 wide.

3 1/2 inch cut it 7 1/8 wide.

This usually works for material around 4 oz. Wider would need a little extra to get the full width. It's somewhat important to get that right if you want the billets to wind up in the center of the belt after it is folded.

[Black River Smith]

Here are two photos of my finished belt and unfinished holster.  The holster is unfinished because the revolver is not in.

This is my rendition of the set on PI page 129.  I cannot carve or do floral work.  The same colored oil saddle tan dye was used on all pieces of leather.