Good buy?????

[VoyPescado]

While I've seen this topic tossed around on a couple threads I wanted to let some folks weigh in and address the subject directly.  I've been in the market for a SA/SAA/ SAA Clone for quite some time now.  While I do not shoot competitively, I do shoot a lot.  And I don't own a gun nor do I have any intentions of ever purchasing a gun that isn't fired regularly. I would very much like to pick up a late 3rd Gen/new production Colt SAA or late production USFA SA as I believe that both represent some of the best, period accurate, 1873's ever manufactured.  Anyway, my hesitancy is the current prices on these things!!  While I don't find the prices on the new 3rd Gen Colts or late USFA SA's entirely inhibitive, I do like, many of you, like to spend my money wisely.  And with NIB 3rd Gen Colt SAA's selling around the $1,900.00 mark on certain gun auction sites and early, i.e. Uberti stamped USFA SA's regularly selling for upwards of $1,800.00 in "Like New" condition, I'm left wondering What the Heck!!??  Are these guys some outstanding revolvers...Absolutely, are they "worth" what folks are currently asking/getting for 'em...mmmmm not so sure.  Especially, when you consider that only 2-3 years ago, both Colt and USFA SA's could be had for $500.00-$600.00 less.  Also discouraging, is the fact that my father is an FFL, whose cost on a new Colt SAA is around $1,200.00 with an MSRP of $1,400.00.  But of course, I've had SAA's on 4 different dealer waiting lists for about 8 months now without any luck.  The point being, obviously Colt's decreased SAA production has caused some pretty significant price increases as of late, and with USFA's untimely exit from the game, they too seem to be sky rocketing in price,  but is either a wise investment right now at these price points?  Is there a chance that a year from now, Colt will start rolling theses guys out again in some more significant numbers and prices will level out?  Is it a safe bet that the USFA that sells, Used, for $1,500.00 in 2014 will run you significantly more in 2016?  I guess what I'm asking is, in ya'lls opinion, is it simply a bad time to purchase on of these guys given the current market value?  And would I be better off, in terms of value, to hold off on this purchase?  Any input  would be greatly welcomed.

[St. George]

Buy the Colt.

You can find a number of them right now - new in the box - on Gunbroker and on other sites, so be more proactive on your own and find one yourself - then find an FFL who'll transfer it for you - you'll save money that way, and won't have to wait for a dealer in some shop to get bored enough to search for you.

You're not going to find them in local shops, because the ones coming into them are already spoken for - accounting for the lack of them on display.

USFA's out of business - period.

Incidentally, two -three years ago, used Colts and USFAs were selling for about a grand and more - demand has never lowered.

Scouts Out!

[Grenadier]

Buy a Pietta or an Uberti and spend the rest on ammo 

[Advertising]

[yahoody]

My 2 censt fwiw.
Buy a Colt if you want the name and the history.   Getting one that actually shoots well is a different story.
I own a bunch of them.

Buy a USFA (not a uspfa) if you want old technology done at the highest level that actually will shoot exceptionally well.
Own them as well and really like the guns simply because they do actually shoot.

Buy Ruger if you simply want a six gun that shoots.

Buy a clone...pick any one of many if you want the look and feel of the 1st gen Colt's but no where near the original quality of workmanship.  Likely the current clones are better than most the 1st gen by the materials.  Some even shoot exceptionally well.

Top of the class for build quality and materials is the last of the USFA guns imo.  Or a nice clean 1st gen. colt for workmanship only.  Prices are now comparable for good reason I think.  Not that any SAA is actually worth $2000 us american dollars!

[Shotgun Franklin]

I own two third generation Colt's SAA, both in .45. They shoot as well, if not better, than any gun I've ever owned. In 2000, using these Colt's, I won Top Shooter at my Club. I've used'm to hunt and carry'm on occasion for self defense. Were there poor quality Colt's made? Sure just like every other gun there are those that just don't meet the quality standards that they should. My guns were made in 1998 and 1999. Now, I do own three Italian replicas. They are good guns and shoot well, however they don't have the Colt name. You used to be able to get a kit to make your VW look like a Rolls. They drove well, got great MPH and last forever. They were not a Rolls. No body at the OK Corral was carrying a replica.

[VoyPescado]

Thanks for all the replies.  But still on the fence with this one.  Looks like the best deal I'm gonna find on a new production 3rd Gen Colt is around the $1,900.00 mark.  And there's a used USFA model P on a popular online auction site that's looking like it might sell for upwards of $2,000.00.  To be entirely honest I'm not sure I have the self discipline to hold off on the purchase of either, but I sure can't help but think I'm gonna feel pretty  silly in the near future when prices for both SA's level out.  I just find it hard to believe that Colt's SAA production is going to continue to be this limited for long, or that USFA SA's will continue to demand premiums comparable to the legendary revolvers they so effectively imitated. 

[St. George]

I just picked up a NIB Colt 5 1/2" .45 - blued, and CCH - built in 2012 - for $950 cash from a dealer specializing in ARs and Glocks.

He'd taken it in in a trade and wanted to be rid of it at a higher price on Saturday, but by Sunday - he just wanted to sell it.

They're out there - but you have to cast a wide net.

If you're patient - put in an order with Colt through a stocking dealer and wait - if not - keep looking on Gunbroker, or go to 'big' shows where they show up - they don't make their appearance at the local show down at the VFW Hall.

USFAs - because they went belly up - are now collectable and have drawn 'investors' and flippers - so that money is different from 'shooter' money, like the money being currently spent on Pythons newly popular because of 'The Walking Dead' connection drawing in one-time purchasers who just have to have one.

Scouts Out!

[yahoody]

"USFAs - because they went belly up - are now collectable and have drawn 'investors' and flippers - so that money is different from 'shooter' money..."

2 cents here.  Some of that may be true but not all of it.  anyone that actually shoots these guns and knows the difference between a good SAA and a bad SAA knows the later USFA guns are simply stellar.  I have equal amount of both, Colt and USFA,  The USFA are worth the premium being paid for them right now....not as collectors but as shooters.

If I was going to own just one SAA and I was buying now I'd hands down find and buy the USFA gun of choice.  The USFA Rodeo is every bit as good as the premium guns as a shooter and easy  enough to better the finish within a hour's time with a lead remover cloth like this one.  Never seen a Colt of any generation come anywhere close for quality.  And I own both.

This one I cut cards with on a regular basis...damn few and I do mean FEW  Colt's will do that out of the box and no Colt out of the box even @ $5K per gun, the full house Colt or Nutmeg Custom shop guns will not match a USFA trigger or timing or shooting point of aim.




three consecutive shots and three cut cards!

scroll through here and see how many of the USFA guns really shoot compared to the Colt's.

http://pistolsmith.blogspot.com/2014/08/no-brag-just-fact.html

I have a bunch of really nice Colts' and a bunch of USFA guns.  Take a USFA guns and match it one to one on every Colt I own and the USFA guns will out shoot every one of the Colt's I own with out question.  No brag, just fact.
 

[VoyPescado]

Ha! St. George that's exactly what I'm talking about!  Hearing of deals like that has kept me from pulling the trigger on this buy for a while now.  And I guess that was my original point, while I think both the late 3rd Gen Colt's and USFA's are outstanding revolvers, it seems that the $1,200.00 to $1,500.00 price point is far more warranted than the $2,000.00 to $2,500.00 that many folks seem willing to drop right now. 

Unfortunately, I've been searching pretty diligently now for about 8 months with very little luck.  In fact, I've called a dozen or so local dealers and NONE had what I was looking for or seemed willing/able  to track it down.  Again, my dad has a small gun shop here locally and has had Colt SAA's on 6 or 7 different dealer waiting lists for about 6 months now.  Of course anyone who has any sort of experience with "small town" FFL's knows they're not exactly at the top of the list to receive the hard-to-get stuff.   

But if anything, St. George's comment has encouraged me to keep searching elsewhere and leave the immediate gratification of some high-priced Gunbroker listings to the other guys.     

[St. George]

Don't call - stop by.

Let them put a face to a name, and maybe someone might be inspired enough to dig a little deeper.

Or maybe not, because the very concept of 'customer service' is no longer a watchword in today's commerce.

Often - it's better if you know a guy with an FFL who will handle your transfer while you do the looking and negotiating.

Cheaper, too, since FFL to FFL goes by USPS and not FedEx.

Good Hunting!

Scouts Out!

[shrapnel]

"USFAs - because they went belly up - are now collectable and have drawn 'investors' and flippers - so that money is different from 'shooter' money..."

2 cents here.  Some of that may be true but not all of it.  anyone that actually shoots these guns and knows the difference between a good SAA and a bad SAA knows the later USFA guns are simply stellar.  I have equal amount of both, Colt and USFA,  The USFA are worth the premium being paid for them right now....not as collectors but as shooters.

If I was going to own just one SAA and I was buying now I'd hands down find and buy the USFA gun of choice.  The USFA Rodeo is every bit as good as the premium guns as a shooter and easy  enough to better the finish within a hour's time with a lead remover cloth like this one.  Never seen a Colt of any generation come anywhere close for quality.  And I own both.



This one I cut cards with on a regular basis...damn few and I do mean FEW  Colt's will do that out of the box and no Colt out of the box even @ $5K per gun, the full house Colt or Nutmeg Custom shop guns will not match a USFA trigger or timing or shooting point of aim.




three consecutive shots and three cut cards!

scroll through here and see how many of the USFA guns really shoot compared to the Colt's.

http://pistolsmith.blogspot.com/2014/08/no-brag-just-fact.html

I have a bunch of really nice Colts' and a bunch of USFA guns.  Take a USFA guns and match it one to one on every Colt I own and the USFA guns will out shoot every one of the Colt's I own with out question.  No brag, just fact.
 

Be careful about your facts as they may be limited. There is a reason many people still shoot Colt's and it isn't just the name. I have  a few and most are even first generation. They don't break like you hear people claim, they shoot very well and before Bob Munden died, he was competing with and shooting Colt's. That is a damned good endorsement of Colt...

[yahoody]

Be careful about your facts as they may be limited......before Bob Munden died, he was competing with and shooting Colt's. That is a damned good endorsement of Colt...

Shot with and knew Bob, Becky and his family for a decade or so back in the '80s.  Came to Butte for Bob's annual shoots many times.  Have a basket full of 1st gen guns myself.  A few of the family heirlooms from a few generations back.  And some of those same Colt's, including some of my more recent guns are *fairly nice* guns.  Out of a couple dozen, I have exactly two Colt's I would consider a stellar gun equal to a *good* USFA.  Even had Bob work over a couple of Colts' for me 25 years or so ago.  Bob also had some sponsorship from Colt among others over the years IIRC.

Difference is a good wrench can make "most" any Colt shoot.  BTDT many times.  The USFA guns generally shoot better out of the box than Bob's custom guns did.  Shoot mind you, where they were aimed.  Not better triggers or more reliable/durable as they were when Bob got done.  But you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse either.  As Eddie Janis told me a few weeks ago..."It is a Colt...lots of them, if it don't shoot, sell it and buy another".


Nice BP framed Colt here....pricey but didn't shoot fer shit when delivered new in the box all gussied up.  Does now.  Never seen a USFA gun that wouldn't cut cards at that distance.  Or open a safety pin if you like.  The "Thistle" Colt would not be my first choice for those jobs but it will likely do both now.  The "Cutter" USFA pictured above makes those same jobs a whole lot easier to accomplish.  Safety pin is always tough no matter what gun you use.  It is a hell of a lot easier with a good 1911!

But I will stand by my statement of fact on the USFA guns.  Never seen a 1st gen gun (the highest quality guns for fit and finish IMO) or any of the newest guns from the Colt Custom shop or any of their like (got guns from three of the recognized best working on Colt's today)  build anything even reasonably close to the quality of even a Premium level late production USFA.  Nothing Colt has done IMO is on that level.  That opinion comes from 30 years of building handguns full time.  YMMV, and rightfully so, but that don't change the facts.    

I still put lead down range every week from Colt's and USFA guns.  Hell, even I prefer to shoot Colts.  Grandpappy's guns aint USFAs.  And neither are most of my heirloom guns. But I have no problem telling the difference, or telling anyone else, which maker built a better gun.

[shrapnel]

I am happy for you and your success with USFA, they are a quality gun, but with all the time you spent with Bob, he wasn't convinced and still shot Colts. I have Colts and will continue to shoot them and even hit what I am aiming at...

[yahoody]

I am happy for you and your success with USFA, they are a quality gun, but with all the time you spent with Bob, he wasn't convinced and still shot Colts. I have Colts and will continue to shoot them and even hit what I am aiming at...

I seen to remember a time when Bob was pimping EMF guns.   Easy to hang you hat on Colt's.  Harder yet to know the difference between a fair gun and a a high quality gun.  Most don't care, let alone know the difference.  And do best to leave opening a safety pin to the likes of Bob. 

I'm just Joe Chit the ragman but seems others with more experience and skill hold a similar view on USFA.

"While we admire the pre-war Colt revolvers, for our purposes, the late-model United States Firearms guns are far superior. In terms of fit and finish, they have no equal and are the best vehicle for fine custom single-actions. In view of developments at USFA, it is entirely possible that, in the near future, we will no longer offer services and modifications for Colt revolvers of any stripe."
Hamilton Bowen January, 2004

We all know how that turned out.

Seems no less than Alex Hamilton and Jim Finch have voiced similar opinions.   Voypescado asked an opinion to get this thread started.   I gave mine and the reasons why.  If you are hungry and need a roof over your head no gun is worth $2K.   But between the USFA and Colt, hands down for me, the USFA as a shooter (not a collectors piece) will always be my first choice.  Only time will tell if they are a good investment.

But I can tell ya the guys selling their $500 Rodeo's for $1000 right now sure think they were.   I'm betting the price will just keep going up and will far surpass any basic Colt of a similar flavor.  Late mode blue and case USFA guns that sold for $800 new are going for $2000+.  Pretty easy to find a Colt for close to $1500 with a similar finish.

Play with both new out of the box and the difference will be glaringly obvious, even to a cowboy.     

 


 

[shrapnel]

But I can tell ya the guys selling their $500 Rodeo's for $1000 right now sure think they were.   I'm betting the price will just keep going up and will far surpass any basic Colt of a similar flavor.  Late mode blue and case USFA guns that sold for $800 new are going for $2000+.  Pretty easy to find a Colt for close to $1500 with a similar finish.

Play with both new out of the box and the difference will be glaringly obvious, even to a cowboy.     

 


 

No argument there, but you have to realize a Colt that sold for $16.00 new, sold for nearly $800,000.00 It will be a millenia or two before one of your USFA guns fetch that kind of money. You like them, I'm glad you do, but don't put the Colt down, as it is the USFA that is compared to the Colt, not the other way round...

A legendary Colt revolver, ordered by the world-famous Sears & Roebuck catalog company around the turn of the 20th century, sold for $747,500 at the James Julia Spring Firearms Auction.  Julia’s offered the Colt, from the Dr. Joseph A. Murphy Collection, with a pre-sale estimate of $450,000-$800,000. - See more at: http://www.militarytrader.com/military-trader-news/rare_colt_revolver_sells_for_747500_dollars#sthash.nhg9i86g.dpuf

[shrapnel]

I was just wondering if you may be a politician...

[yahoody]

"No argument there, but you have to realize a Colt that sold for $16.00 new, sold for nearly $800,000.00 "

And there I was, wondering when  Montana boys started telling Texas size whoppers. 

"Becareful about your facts as they may be limited"

You have certainly proven that statement many times over now.

[shrapnel]

You make a compelling argument. I re-read everything and you are right. I am going to sell all my Colts and buy some USFA  revolvers. I am in your debt...

[yahoody]

   keep the Colts and buy a USFA  or two.  Won't hurt the economy.

[shrapnel]

Dang, you may be,right again...