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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1876 (Moderator: Grizzly Adams)  |  Topic: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF  (Read 61018 times)
buckheart
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« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2015, 06:56:50 pm »



Put 20 rounds through the new 1876 today. 16grs. of Trail Boss under a .514 350gr. bullet from Buffalo Arms. After a minor adjustment I was able to keep all of my shots on a paper plate at 50 yards. More of a pattern than a group Grin. Of course there was virtually no recoil with these cream puff loads. I need to get some 5744 and take it up a notch. I also see some people use 4198.
The sights leave a bit to be desired, especially the front sight. 60 year old eyes don't get along too well with tiny black front sight blades. I forgot my Merit Aperture sight too. That thing really helps.

here's some pictures. She has some nice figure.



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ndnchf
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« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2015, 07:25:36 pm »

That's great looking wood! I added a Riflesmith tang sight to help with my aging eyes. It's an exact reproduction of the original factory tang sight. It works great, really helped my sight picture. I had mine out a couple weeks ago. My load was 78gr by weight of Goex 3F over a Lyman 515139 bullet. It shoots pretty good. But I'll tell ya - it creates it's own thunder and lightening! Every head on the firing line turned to see what it was. A slip on recoil pad is a welcome friend.
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dusty texian
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« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2015, 01:35:25 pm »

That is a very nice looking rifle there Buckheart! I like that wood. Fill them cases up with some Bp. and feel what that old 50 can really do. ,,,DT
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DTS
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« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 am »

Thanks for this thread, guys. Just this morning, the transport truck dropped off my new Uberti .50/95. Along with it, I received 40 rounds of loaded Bu.Arms ammo made from .50/90 brass as well as 200 B.A. 510" and .512" bullets. I did not know of the groove size deal, but no problem. This afternoon, I pulled all of the bullets anyway, dumped the 80gr. of what looks like 2f Swiss or perhaps 2f GOEX Ctg. or Enysford - very shiny hard angular BP grains. I loaded them up with some IMR4895 and IMR4198 soft-ball loads with the .512" bullets. With must the calipers, it appears to have a .512" groove diameter, but perhaps tomorrow I'll slug it properly & find it's .513" or .514".

 One the subject of moulds, I have an old #515141 Lyman mould. Some books call it a 422gr., others 450gr. as with the Lee mould for the same bullet that I also have. I drilled out the nose of the Lyman mould some time ago and installed a plug making it cast a shorter nosed 420gr. bullet in quite soft alloy, perhaps 30:1. This bullet shoots very well indeed in my original .50/70 Sharps 1859 carbine barrel.(on an Italian action I finished) As original at 450gr., it started opening up at 100yards and were keyholing at 200, due probably to the original barrel's 42" twist. since shortening the bullet, they shoot amazingly well, holding 2 1/2" at 100 meters with the original carbine sights- off bags, of course.

The barrel, still marked 1859, was chambered for a long .50/70 case, actually 1.9", under Army contract in 1867. It would have been called a model 1868, I assume.  Good bore, 3 groove.

That's all beside the point, I am now looking forward to shooting some of those bullets. I also have another 60 Jamison cases coming. I also need to start casting & experimenting as I want to use it the end of this month for Whitetails up North.

Thanks again for the thread and suggested loads.

DTS
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King Medallion
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« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2015, 10:12:14 am »

And the picture's of the new rifle are where? I can't see them!  Wink Must be waiting to take them with downed deer perhaps?
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dusty texian
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« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2015, 10:20:51 am »

Didnt think you would let that slide! KM,,,,,DT
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ndnchf
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« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2015, 11:46:01 am »

I see this over and over. BACO selling undersized and very expensive loaded ammunition with no cautions about slugging these 1876 Ubertis for groove size first. Most of the Uberti 76s I've heard about slug 513"-514". With the slow twist these barrels have, i'd suggest keep bullet weight under 350gr for best performance.
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« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2015, 11:49:25 pm »

I received 40 rounds of loaded ammo with the rifle - apparently unfired.  they were loaded with .509" 300gr. bluff nosed bullets that lacked enough of an ogive to chamber.  I pulled them all and threw them into the junk bin.  I loaded the cases with the .512" 300gr. bluff osed Buffalo Arms Co. bullets I also received. I have not too much hope for them to work but they will serve to Fire Form the shortened .50/90 brass they were loaded in. I slugged the bore and it is .5125" evenly in all grooves. they may or may not shoot well enough.

I went over to bro's and collected a whack of the 434gr. #515141 bullets (WW alloy) I gave him some time ago, to try in his Sharps.  It did not like them, but since they measure .515", I'll try them in my M76 - after I shorten the noses that is - a fairly quick job in the lathe. Might be easier just to cast some new ones in my shortened mould.
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« Reply #58 on: November 05, 2015, 02:46:43 pm »

And the picture's of the new rifle are where? I can't see them!  Wink Must be waiting to take them with downed deer perhaps?

The only picture I have and it's my bro's .45/60. LOL- I haven't figured out how to upload pictures from my camera into my new computer  it is balking and won't download the disk I have, so he'll have to photo it for me, then mail them to me.

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ndnchf
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« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2015, 04:50:08 pm »

If those 512" diameter bullets aren't too hard, they may work ok in your rifle. Having a 5125" groove size, they should bump up a little, so long as they are loaded with black powder.
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« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2015, 09:31:30 pm »

TKS for the note, ndnchf. I figured they'd probably shoot with BP, but the noses of them are SO short, they won't feed unless I point the muzzle down with the bolt back all the way, to allow the case to fall out from under the extractor, and drop into the chamber - then I can close the bolt. Pain in the posterior I might add.  I am going to cast up some bullets in my shortened Lyman #515141 mould that run 420gr. and might just go ahead and order a 350gr. mould form Buffalo arms, a .515<> I think.  If I make a bump die, smaller commercial bullet diameters might be reclaimable.
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ndnchf
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« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2015, 09:13:10 am »

Check out this thread from the Spencer forum. This mold might be just the ticket:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,55140.0.html
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« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2015, 01:17:14 am »

That does look like a great bullet and one that will hold enough lube as well.  Thanks for the link to the thread.  Now, to find moose Bullets
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« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2015, 05:08:26 pm »

Got my Bro to snap a picture and mail it to me. Was over there showing him my new .50/95.
That is his M1876 in .45/60- also a Uberti, which he restocked in some nice walnut.  He also has some sights from Montana Vintage Arms, I think it's called.  That is a LOT of money, just in sights.
The bullet loaded in my case, is a 415gr., shortened #515141 form a Lyman mould.

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King Medallion
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« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2015, 06:37:17 pm »

Beautiful!
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ndnchf
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« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2015, 07:27:24 pm »

A nice pair! Your friend does nice stock work Smiley
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« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2015, 10:06:30 pm »

Tks guys - Yes- my brother is recognized by the best of them, as being in the top 8 to 10 of muzzleloading gun makers in the States.
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wymanwinn
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« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2015, 04:46:15 pm »

Check out this thread from the Spencer forum. This mold might be just the ticket:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,55140.0.html

chomping at the bit to get home...my Moose Mould 516375 is in the mail box....

Smiley
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ndnchf
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« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2015, 05:10:37 pm »

chomping at the bit to get home...my Moose Mould 516375 is in the mail box....

Smiley

Please post some pics and details!
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wymanwinn
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« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2015, 05:37:07 pm »

Please post some pics and details!

will do....gonna turn on the pot as soon as i get home and cast some up....!!!!
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wymanwinn
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« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2015, 09:44:41 pm »

Well, the Moose Mould 516-375 arrived as scheduled.....have to say, these are REALLY, really great folks and they produce a VERY nice mould



i ordered a double cavity, right handed aluminum mould/precision steel sprue cutter...it comes with handles and is a work of art...







AND it produces a very fine bullet from ~20:1 alloy (725f) at about .5165" dia, ~.773"long, ~285"meplat and ~.370 from the face of the meplat to the top edge of the crimp groove...which added to the JBA .50-95 case length makes the COL of the round about 2.292" wihich is about .033" shorter than the 2.325" mortise on my rifle....this just may work without needing to trim the cases...will load some dummies for test cycling over the weekend....








now i need to acquire a .516" sizing die for my Star.... Grin

wyman

edit...well, i could not wait...i loaded 5 dummie rounds (even without sizing the bullet) and the COL ended up being about 2.280" with the roll crimp firmly in place....pushed them into the mag tube and cycled them all out without a hitch.....!!!!

this mould is a winner in my book....
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Solvang Shootist
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ndnchf
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« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2015, 05:41:08 pm »

Boy that mold is a beauty, as are the bullets. I'll have to compare the bullet specs to my Rapine mold bullets. They sure do look very similar. I uses a 515" sizer in my Lyman 450. It works well for me. It will be interesting to weigh a bullet before and after lubeing to determine the weight of lube that big groove holds.
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wymanwinn
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« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2015, 05:50:25 pm »

Boy that mold is a beauty, as are the bullets. I'll have to compare the bullet specs to my Rapine mold bullets. They sure do look very similar. I uses a 515" sizer in my Lyman 450. It works well for me. It will be interesting to weigh a bullet before and after lubeing to determine the weight of lube that big groove holds.

just ordered a 515" sizer with 6 lube holes for my star....need lots of holes to pump all the lube in...

i will weigh the bullets before and after and post here

i will also, when i get some free time, create a detailed drawing for the bullet....

thanks for all the help ndnchp....very much appreciated...
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Solvang Shootist
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ndnchf
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« Reply #73 on: November 13, 2015, 07:54:08 pm »

Glad to be able to help. 

I measured my Rapine bullet in 30-1 alloy.  It measures .745" long, .350" from meplat to crimp groove, .516" diameter and weighs around 353gr.  So its a little shorter and lighter, but not much.  I've loaded this over 76gr of Goex 3F with .150" compression.



I look forward to your range report.
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wymanwinn
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« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2015, 09:09:03 am »



ok, could not let this rest...LOL

the above is a JBA .50-95 case sized with a CH4D Uberti full length die, primed with a Win LR primer, neck sized to .514, 75gr of Goex FFFg compressed .150" with a .509" compression die, seated w/ roll crimp a .515" sized Moose Moulds 516375 Spencer bullet (see abpove) that weighed 373.4gr w/o lube/375.6gr with SPG filling the huge lube groove and the COL is 2.280".....

this is a VERY fine looking cartridge....looking forward to putting it on paper

ndnchf....went with 75gr of FFFg cuz of the extra length from the crimp groove to the base.....!

oh yeah....it cycles and chambers beautifully in my Cimarron (Uberti) 1867 Centennial, 28"bbl.... Cool Cool Cool
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1876 (Moderator: Grizzly Adams)  |  Topic: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF « previous next »
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