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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1876 (Moderator: Grizzly Adams)  |  Topic: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF  (Read 44455 times)
wymanwinn
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« Reply #100 on: November 28, 2015, 03:46:25 pm »

ok now...

received my .515" sizing die and fabricated a punch....sized and lubed up 20 Moose Moulds 516375 Spencer bullets, sized 20 primed JBL .50-95 cases, neck sized to .514", filled 10 cases with 75gr (by weight) of Goex FFFg and 10 cases with 75gr (by weight) of Goex FFG, all powder was measured with a Belding & Mull powder thrower and a 24" drop tube, compressed the loads about .150" or just slightly shorter (about .020") than the distance from the base of the bullet to the crimp groove....seated and roll crimped the bullet to a COL of 2.280"...

saturday will be the chrony/sight in day....stay tuned!!!!

ok, just back from the range and cleaned the 50-95....

with the above FFg load i sighted the rifle at 100 yards off of a rest with these results...

5 shots with rear sight at lowest position on the ramp, 1st sighter was low, moved rear sight up one notch on the ramp, better on 2nd shot but still low, moved sight to middle notch of the ramp and the next three danced on a 8" swinging plate....pretty good IMO...ran a boresnake/windex through the barrel
recoil was pretty mild and quite manageable
5 shots through the CED M2 chrony, 1299, 1303, 1314, 1320, 1308...1308fps avg, 21 extreme spread
ran boresnake/windex through the barrel



with the above FFFg load i again sighted the rifle at 100 yards off of a rest with these results...

5 shots with rear sight at lowest position on the ramp, 1st sighter was slightly low, moved rear sight up one notch on the ramp and bingo....danced around and on the 8" swinging plate....VERY good IMO....liking this as it shoots slightly flatter..ran boresnake/windex through the barrel
recoil was more robust but not overly so, i could probably run 50 rounds through the rifle and feel good...
5 shots through the CED M2 chrony, 1425, 1444, 1439, 1438, 1410...1431 avg, 34 extreme spread...
ran boresnake/windex through the barrel

packed up my gear and headed for the garage to clean the gun thoroughly....not too bad, windex w/vinegar and a couple of passes with a bronze bore brush and 6 windex soaked flannel patches, two dry follow-ups and finally a patch soaked in TriFlow and the barrel was gleaming...!!!

i should also note the the Moose Moiulds 516375 "big lube groove" bullet left a nice lube star on the muzzle....just enough lube for this beauty of a forearm i would say...Smiley

overall, i will be loading Goex FFFg 75gr by weight, thrown from a Belding & Mull powder thrower!!!!

Great gun, and a VERY good load i would say....love it when it all comes together like this...

wyman

ps...had a few "spectators" too....and they too were impressed.....Smiley))))
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ndnchf
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« Reply #101 on: November 28, 2015, 04:23:04 pm »

Thanks for the detailed report. What alloy and weight are the Moose bullets? That 3F load really moves along, a true express load. Sure glad to hear your first outing was successful.
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wymanwinn
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« Reply #102 on: November 28, 2015, 05:15:57 pm »

Thanks for the detailed report. What alloy and weight are the Moose bullets? That 3F load really moves along, a true express load. Sure glad to hear your first outing was successful.

~20:1 alloy and 375gr lubed bullet...
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ndnchf
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« Reply #103 on: November 28, 2015, 06:56:15 pm »

Ok - thanks. Keep us appraised of your progress!
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wymanwinn
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« Reply #104 on: November 29, 2015, 06:24:25 pm »

Ok - thanks. Keep us appraised of your progress!

well, i was so excited about my successes with the .50-95 loads that i went out to my "Cave" and cast up about 200 bullets and lubed/sized them this morning....they are in the wine cooler waiting for another 75 JMB5095 cases....

now i just need a little brighter front sight instead of that skinny black sliver....LOL   maybe i will solder a brass bit to the back of the sight blade....!

dang this is fun, can't wait to shoot the beast again...Smiley))))
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ndnchf
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« Reply #105 on: November 29, 2015, 08:09:47 pm »

How about a Beach combination front sight. I've thought about getting one several times, but not followed through.

https://montanavintagearms.com/product/sights/mva/mva-combination-front-sight/
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King Medallion
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« Reply #106 on: November 29, 2015, 11:06:57 pm »

I've given thought to those sights as well. Not being a mathematician, which is the 3/8th dovetail?
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ndnchf
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« Reply #107 on: November 30, 2015, 06:22:45 pm »

I have not measured the front sight dovetail myself, but 3/8" = .375".
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« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2015, 07:24:50 pm »

Thanks, that's what I thought.
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ndnchf
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« Reply #109 on: December 28, 2015, 04:53:57 pm »

I finally got to the range today and tried out a couple loads at 50 yards.

The .515" swaged out 300gr bullet shot pretty well with swiss 2Ff, about 2.4". Not a target load, but a lot better than they shot at the original .512" diameter.

I tried 36gr of Accurate 5744 under a Lyman 515139. That shot about 2.4" also.

Over the years I've tried APP in various cartridges with so so results. It always seemed inconsistent. So decided to try it with a magnum primer rather than the usual LR primer. That really seemed to make a difference. I loaded 63gr by weight of APP 2F under a Lyman 515139. That put 4 shots under 1.5". It sounded strong with no noticeable difference between shots.

While I like shooting real black and will continue to do so, this was an interesting and unexpected display of what a difference a magnum primer can make with APP. I'm going to explore this further.
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buckheart
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« Reply #110 on: December 29, 2015, 09:14:18 am »

Some of the reading I have done about cartridge loading BP has said that magnum primers are the best way to go with black, black substitutes too. I have been shooting Blackhorn 209 in a 45 colt SAA with good results. It makes great smoke and flame and accuracy is acceptable for shooting steel at 25 yards. Cleaning has been easy too. I may have to try some 209 in the 76.
 
 So far I have only shot Trailboss loads in my 1876. Accuracy was 3 to 4 inches offhand at 50yds. I did shoot some of these loads over my chrony. Will have to get the notebook in hand to get the specifics. Finally got some 5744 powder in at my local supplier. Haven't tried that yet. I will be loading some up for the 1876 with it later today.

Ndnchf- I like that front sight you posted a link to. Some where on here you posted something about a rear sight for the 76. A ladder type I believe, maybe Smith industries?
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ndnchf
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« Reply #111 on: December 29, 2015, 11:44:51 am »

Yes, I added a riflesmith ladder sight. It's an exact copy of the original 1876 Winchester sight. Unfortunately they are no longer in business.



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« Reply #112 on: December 29, 2015, 01:35:42 pm »

Can I have yours then?  Wink Grin
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ndnchf
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« Reply #113 on: December 29, 2015, 06:38:23 pm »

Gee, I'd love to but I can't find a screwdriver to remove it  Grin. Fortunately, there are other tang sight options that will serve quite well.
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wymanwinn
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« Reply #114 on: December 30, 2015, 02:27:29 pm »

Yes, I added a riflesmith ladder sight. It's an exact copy of the original 1876 Winchester sight. Unfortunately they are no longer in business.

i found and ordered this...

http://www.buffaloarms.com/winchester-reproduction_rear_sight_it-1170333.aspx?TERM=wrrs

Happy New Year!!!
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ndnchf
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« Reply #115 on: December 30, 2015, 04:01:05 pm »


That's a nice sight, but I thought you were looking for a tang sight  Huh My original 1873 carbine wears the same original sight on its barrel. Let us know how it works out for you.
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wymanwinn
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« Reply #116 on: December 30, 2015, 04:20:26 pm »

That's a nice sight, but I thought you were looking for a tang sight  Huh My original 1873 carbine wears the same original sight on its barrel. Let us know how it works out for you.

you are correct ndnchf, i was looking for a tang sight....but on recollection, decided that the Hoke tang sight on my Pedersoli Sharps would be enough for long distance....and figuring that the 50-95 is prolly only decent to 125-150 yards that the ladder would suffice...

i know...you say "the guy is out to lunch" on this....but i do like to play about...Smiley

Happy New Year to you and yours!

wyman
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« Reply #117 on: December 30, 2015, 04:59:11 pm »

That looks exactly like the sight that WAS on my Browning 1886. Sporting a Buckhorn now, much better. The ad says exactly like every model EXCEPT the 76? Well, good luck with it.
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ndnchf
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« Reply #118 on: December 30, 2015, 05:00:40 pm »

Ok got it. I hope it works out for you. My original '73 shoots pretty good with that sight.


:

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wymanwinn
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« Reply #119 on: December 30, 2015, 09:33:51 pm »

Ok got it. I hope it works out for you. My original '73 shoots pretty good with that sight.


:



VERY nice....your 73 is a 44wcf i assume...!!!

i have an original in 44scf and 38wcf....both very nice pieces, but i rarely if ever shoot them....
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« Reply #120 on: March 16, 2016, 12:55:23 pm »

I did some chrono testing with my .50/95 last time Taylor and I were out.  Didn't get to shoot for groups, but ran some over the 'clock' with both GOEX 3F and Swiss 1 1/2F and the 300gr. .512" Buffalo bullet, using the 34" droi tuvbe
85.0gr. 1 1/2Swiss: Fed210 primer: 1/10" compression: 1,580fps
78.0gr. 3F  GOEX::: Fed 210 primer: 1/10" compression: 1,650fps

edited - 3F not 2F GOEX
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buckheart
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« Reply #121 on: March 16, 2016, 04:24:26 pm »

Some I did a while back. I haven't shot much for groups yet either.

350 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 16 gr. Trail-boss avg. 1162.5  fps.
330 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 26.5 gr. AA5744 avg. 1185  fps.
330 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 27 gr. AA5744 avg. 1237  fps.
330 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 27.5 gr. AA5744 avg. 1261  fps.
455 GR. Montana .513 16 gr. Trail-boss avg. 1055  fps.
455 GR. Montana .513 32.1 gr IMR4227 avg. 1394  fps.

all averages from 5 shot strings
federal LRP
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« Reply #122 on: February 10, 2017, 07:56:35 pm »

So far, my handloads using the 368gr. Lyman mould, #515139AQ are:

56.0gr. H4895 Fed 210 ---- 1,626fps.
52.0gr. IMR3031 Fed 210 - 1,700fps.
52.0gr. AmmoMart 44N Fed 210 - 1,650fps.  Note this powder is marked - use IMR3031 data. In appearance, it looks like H4895, but with blacker, slightly smaller granuals. It burns much more cleanly than either IMR3031 or H4895. It seems quite accurate and since I have a few pounds of it, I am going after that 1,000 meter buffalo with it, this summer.

Further to that old post, here is some data I found and had written down - I do not remember where I got this from, so here it is, anyway.
This data is for the Uberti model 1876 .50/95.  No make or brass nor primers used, is mentioned.

This is the data I was sort-of following/extrapolating my data from.
I also don't remember where I got this list from.
I also recall Uberti saying these actions are MUCH stronger than people give them credit for.

Note, this data is mostly jacketed bullets, which are undersized to our rifles - as far as I know.

339gr. Cast Ten-X Factory??? - 1,477fps.

300gr. Barnes FN - 53.3gr. 5744 - 1,657fps
------------------ 60.7gr. H4895 - 1,744fps
------------------ 47.2gr. IMR4198 - 1,815fps
------------------ 60.3gr. VN133 - 1,819fps- MAX
------------------ 52.7gr. IMR4198 - 2,057fps
------------------ 62.8gr. 2015 - 2,126fps

450gr. Barnes FN - 46.4gr. H4895 - 1,336fps
------------------ 32.1gr. IMR4227 - 1,363fps
------------------ 35.8gr. IMR4198 - 1,370fps
------------------ 45.3gr. IMR3031 - 1,456fps
------------------ 46.7gr. VN133 - 1,402fps
------------------ 50.5gr. H4895 - 1,473fps
------------------ 48.8gr. IMR3031 1,582fps

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frimath
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« Reply #123 on: September 05, 2017, 03:42:20 pm »

Has anyone shot the Jamieson 50-95 win out of any of their Ubertis???

While in the process of working up a load for my hotly anticipated Presidio model's arrival, I had been researching etc loads for this caliber. While searching out powders and bullet weights I decided to take one of the Jamieson cartridges and pull the head in order to get some info on what their loading might be. Although I thought it would be a long shot to identify the powder I actually caught a very unexpected break in that regard!

There is very little doubt in my mind that the powder they are using is in fact HODGENS "Trail Boss" !  I was surprised to see that because I didn't think that powder was very conducive to such a large case much less in such an old timey caliber.  I looked into its use in rifle cartridges and in fact they have a loading for the 45-70 "Trapdoor". As many of us know the Trapdoor is considered the weakest action in that caliber and hence is loaded significantly less than more robust firearms.

So........ the loading they are using is a 350 grain lead bullet in front of 18-18.2 grains of the Trail Boss. I say 18-18.2 because the scale actually showed .2 and I figure it was meant to use an even 18 grains.   This 18 grains , however, seems to be at the HIGH end of the loading spectrum and I am wondering what anyone on this board may think about this information. Right now I have a bunch of 365 grain lead bullets but I don't think I want to load them up with 18 grains. I'm thinking firstly lets see how the Jamieson rounds work in the soon to be had new rifle and then maybe look at loading 14-16 grains behind the 365 grain (.515 dia. I believe) lead that I have recently received.

I'd love to get some feedback on all of this and would appreciate any worthwhile "musings" regarding same........ thanks!

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kwilliams1876
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« Reply #124 on: September 06, 2017, 10:23:18 am »

the Jamieson brass is what i use, with 1f black powder, compressed, fiber wad, std. primer, ideal 512138 430 gr. cast bullet. the combo prints nice 100yd groups and with the original style repro tang sight, able to consistently hit a 14" gong at 200 yards. never tried for a group at 50 yds.
best
kw
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1876 (Moderator: Grizzly Adams)  |  Topic: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF « previous next »
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