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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1876 (Moderator: Grizzly Adams)  |  Topic: Loading Data for the 45/75 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Loading Data for the 45/75  (Read 58260 times)
greyhawk
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« Reply #100 on: August 21, 2017, 08:30:58 pm »

Hey Dusty
Thought you may be interested in molds I am using for my Uberti '76 (45/75 blackpowder)
Have posted some of this before in another spot -
I took a LEE 459-405 HB mold - was a little leery of the roundish nose - outta the box the nose would fit into a primer pocket - yeah some guys shoot round nose boolits in tube mags and get away with it ok (get away with it being the operative phrase I reckon) - but a full magazine '76 theres a pound of loaded rounds plus the recoil - too late afterwards eh! --- anyway I milled some of the top flat of this mold just increasing the flat meplat of the boolit some until it was a safe size - then I made a new base plug from brass to take out the bottom driving band and lube groove - was intending to fit it properly but have been using it loose as in the pic - - have cast a few hundred that way and its no great problem - boolit from this mold drops at 335 grains - I do have the LEE 340 grain mold but my opinion it dont carry enough lube for Blackpowder - second mold is the same 405HB - top milled the same for a wider flat point - and just took the tit off the base plug to make it a flat base rather than HB - this goes neat at 405 grain and we got three nice lube grooves - both these I crimp right into the top of the forward grease groove - I have cut my brass to suit - wished I didnt do that but had plans at the time to shoot some smokeless. My rifle shoots the 405 grain quite nice - doesnt seem to be any preference. I get very close to 1500fps from that 335 grainer over 67 grains of BP - (roll yer own powder). At this stage cant really be bothered with smokeless. ----oh both those molds I drilled the hole in the sprue plate bigger.     


* 335 grain LEE mold.jpeg (95.53 KB, 480x800 - viewed 91 times.)

* 405 grain LEE mold.jpeg (96.57 KB, 480x800 - viewed 89 times.)

* 45-75 one.jpeg (131.33 KB, 800x480 - viewed 122 times.)
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King Medallion
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« Reply #101 on: August 21, 2017, 08:35:46 pm »

The bullets are Laser Cast 350 gr. FN. I have some 405's but haven't tried them in the 76 yet, been using them in the 86.
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greyhawk
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« Reply #102 on: August 22, 2017, 01:56:08 am »

King
I went back and re read these posts .....kinda been repeatin meself here  Embarrassed
your laser cast pills look ok - price is good - I would be lookin to buy without the lube because of my blackpowder thing but I bet they would do that if ya needed it - You guys are so lucky havin all these goodies available - downunder we pretty much need to shift for ourselves (such a small market we are) - I probably say stick with the 350grain load - it works - aint broke dont fix it - 405gr you will definitely notice a bit more recoil (not that it is bothersome at all just a nice friendly push along with the boom of blackpowder - good fun!) Ballistics charts say we up around 1600ftlbs energy with those 335 - 350 grain boolits so its a useful load - most things shot with it should stay shot. Anyway - glad you are enjoyin "thumper".
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dusty texian
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« Reply #103 on: August 22, 2017, 06:09:55 am »

Greyhawk your custom mould makes a good bullet . The larger grease grooves are very good as a BP. bullet. I think the reason I'm getting away with the Lee 340 and its smaller groove's is the fact that I shoot a few rounds and wipe . Being mostly a hunter the first shot from a clean cold barrel is what concerns me most . Just the other day one of the Bp. loads that I was testing would put it's first bullet clean bore  on target just right. The next four shots without cleaning went into a small group 2-1/2 " 5 oclock from the first.  So I settle for a load that puts all /most bullets into the same spot cold, hot , dirty,or clean. Note my 40/60 wcf and my 45/75 wcf are the most forgiving   in this respect .,,,, DT
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King Medallion
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« Reply #104 on: August 22, 2017, 08:10:11 am »

Thanks for the info, fella's. I'm going to continue the search for the best load for Thumper. I'm not a black powder shooter for the most part, I did try some AAP when I first got it rifle and was not impressed with the accuracy at all. I don't cast myself, but I do have a Lyman lube/sizing machine, just don't know where to get black powder bullets without lube. Of course, truth be told, I haven't really looked either.
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greyhawk
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« Reply #105 on: August 22, 2017, 01:26:36 pm »

Greyhawk your custom mould makes a good bullet . The larger grease grooves are very good as a BP. bullet. I think the reason I'm getting away with the Lee 340 and its smaller groove's is the fact that I shoot a few rounds and wipe . Being mostly a hunter the first shot from a clean cold barrel is what concerns me most . Just the other day one of the Bp. loads that I was testing would put it's first bullet clean bore  on target just right. The next four shots without cleaning went into a small group 2-1/2 " 5 oclock from the first.  So I settle for a load that puts all /most bullets into the same spot cold, hot , dirty,or clean. Note my 40/60 wcf and my 45/75 wcf are the most forgiving   in this respect .,,,, DT

yup ! first one is the money shot hey - interesting how some guns will do this way easier than others - 
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Trailrider
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« Reply #106 on: August 22, 2017, 10:25:27 pm »

Have you thought about IMR4198? If you can't get Unique can you get Hodgdon's Universal?  I haven't loaded  .45-75, but IMR4198 works pretty well in a .45-60 original M'76. with a 300 gr bullet cast from Lyman #2 equivalent mix.
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Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #107 on: August 22, 2017, 10:53:48 pm »

I've had promising results with IMR4198 and my Accurate Molds 350 grain bullet,  fired from my Uberti 45-75.

CC Griff
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greyhawk
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« Reply #108 on: August 23, 2017, 12:59:07 am »

I've had promising results with IMR4198 and my Accurate Molds 350 grain bullet,  fired from my Uberti 45-75.

CC Griff
I have not felt the need to go there with smokeless - 1) velocity is good - getting 1480 - 1490fps with the 335grain boolit 2) accurracy is good - or at least as good or better than I can hold /see  3) re loading is easy (I have loaded a lot of Blackpowder shells over the years - its no big deal - maybe a little slower is all) 4) Roll yer own powder works out about $2 per pound 5) zero risk of blowin up my favourite shooter with a crook load of smokeless.   The only possible downside to shootin black is the cleanup and I like handling this rifle anyway so that dont count for me - takes all of five minutes. In case you all think I am totally biased I just spent a couple hours working with a 25/303 and smokeless - 43.5 grains of 760 winchester powder / 75 grain hornady HP / 4 to 16 power scope - this is a workhorse for my son to cull feral pigs with - some places ya just cant use blackpowder !!!!.......would be kinda fun to get amongst a mob of them with that 45/75 one day too....... 
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frimath
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« Reply #109 on: September 12, 2017, 03:12:26 pm »

So here is my data:
Bullet: Lee Mould- 385 grain flat nose hollow base made of pure lead(! I was surprised too!) SPG lube used in grease grooves and in base cavity
Primer: Federal Magnum Primer # 215
Powder: 68.5 grains FFG GOEX brand
Frankly I thought I was using a 5 grain of 4759 for a duplex load in the base of the case . But it doesn't look like I was! It shoots pretty clean

Smokeless Loading:
Bullet: 350 grain Hardcast Round nose-flat point solid base ( I forget who the manufacturer is but probably got them from Dave Gullo at buffalo Arms Co.)
Primer: Federal (or any other ) Large Rifle 210 or M210 (match)
Powder: 23.5 grains of Accurate 5744

If I could figure out how to post photos I would post my targets from 50 yards. Both of these loadings shoot point of aim at 50 yards through my Uberti NWMP Carbine. I love it. But I did cheat and had the front sight raised to lower the point of impact to the point of aim.

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greyhawk
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« Reply #110 on: September 12, 2017, 05:18:35 pm »

Frimath
thanks for posting
Your LEE 385 grain HB --? is that their 459 - 405 - HB with a bit of a nose job ? or have they another mold I missed ?
 
68.5 grains of FF Goex would be a heavy compression load for me - yeah it would work but haveta lean on it to make it fit -

 I am  using 348 winchester cases - they are extra tough n I think ya lose a few grains powder space - it takes four full blackpowder loads to blow em out to shape

I did try the duplex load you listed when I was using cheap and dirty chinese powder - it worked ok, but I preferred 4227as a starter - chrony was more consistent -- however the SR4759 was old ---- like at least forty years old - its a wonder it even lit off - since switching to my own powder - dont need the duplex for clean burn so I dont use it - one less thing to do .

My rifle seems to like the 405 grain boolit just as well as the lighter ones - I use that same LEE 459-405-HB - with a nose job and a flat base plug - I really like the shape of it and you get decent lube grooves without the craziness of some of the big lube designs.

Well thanks for posting -- one o these days I might even try your smokeyless load .
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #111 on: December 18, 2017, 06:08:16 pm »

What primer are you guys using with the smokeless and BP loads? Are Magnum primers better? I've tried some of the smokeless loads seen on this board and I'm getting some unburned powder with most of the smokeless loads.
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Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #112 on: December 18, 2017, 06:23:54 pm »

For my IMR 4198 loads, I'm using Winchester primers, which list use for standard or magnum loads, but I suspect are more on the standard side of the scale.  I have no documentation of that, however.  I have not had unburned powder to speak of.

CC Griff
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« Reply #113 on: December 22, 2017, 10:26:14 pm »

I found in most of my smokeless loads that I had unburned powder unless I used a filler.  The amount of unburned powder varied depending on the type of powder and the load.  Magnum primers would reduce the amount of unburned powder.

SR
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King Medallion
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« Reply #114 on: March 07, 2018, 05:16:09 pm »

Anyone try any Hi Tek Coated bullets? I got some 300 grainers from Missouri Bullt Co. I'm gonna try.
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Pinback
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« Reply #115 on: March 07, 2018, 08:33:44 pm »

I powder coated my cast 330gr. Gould Express bullets. I pan lubed them and ran them through a Lee sizing die. They were loaded  with a stout 75gr. of drop tubed, compressed Black Powder. They shot great and no bore leading.


* IMG_0030_resized.jpg (34.47 KB, 200x152 - viewed 46 times.)
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« Reply #116 on: March 07, 2018, 09:14:02 pm »

These powder coated and Gas Checked bullets work very well also. The mold used here is the SAECO 350gr #017 .458/.459 Flat Point. I've never experienced any leading with my coated or non-coated cast bullets with 16/1 lead to tin. My '76 isn't finicky about bullets or loads, though Black Powder is all I've ever used.
 


* Power Coated Bullets.jpg (126.01 KB, 800x449 - viewed 60 times.)
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greyhawk
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« Reply #117 on: March 11, 2018, 05:49:27 pm »

These powder coated and Gas Checked bullets work very well also. The mold used here is the SAECO 350gr #017 .458/.459 Flat Point. I've never experienced any leading with my coated or non-coated cast bullets with 16/1 lead to tin. My '76 isn't finicky about bullets or loads, though Black Powder is all I've ever used.
 

ya shootin lipstick boolits  in a 76  Huh??  Roll Eyes over black powder - wot colour is da smoke Huh?
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dusty texian
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« Reply #118 on: March 11, 2018, 06:54:02 pm »

Was wondering the same thing , would make purple I thank ! ,,,,,DT
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Pinback
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« Reply #119 on: March 11, 2018, 08:54:28 pm »

Ha Ha! The smoke is plain old black powder smoke. "I don't always shoot powder coated bullets, but when I do I shoot red ones." They do kind of match the "Uberti red" stock though.


* IMG_0011 (623x640).jpg (365.59 KB, 623x640 - viewed 36 times.)
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greyhawk
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« Reply #120 on: March 11, 2018, 10:36:56 pm »

Ha Ha! The smoke is plain old black powder smoke. "I don't always shoot powder coated bullets, but when I do I shoot red ones." They do kind of match the "Uberti red" stock though.

hmmmmph ! me an Dusty is seriously dissapointed about the lack of purple smoke !

Q - thats a fine lookin tang sight in yr picture - how far out have you shot with it and how did that Uberti do! I am seriously considering butchering . altering another LEE mold - take off the base band and one lube groove turns the 459-500-3R into a pointy nose two groove boolit right around 385 grains - single loaded of course ! I just have not shot my 76 past 100yards - happy to blame the operator for any misalignment of boolits at that distance - do you reckon 500yards is do able Huh       
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greyhawk
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« Reply #121 on: March 11, 2018, 11:25:49 pm »

hmmmmph ! me an Dusty is seriously dissapointed about the lack of purple smoke !

Q - thats a fine lookin tang sight in yr picture - how far out have you shot with it and how did that Uberti do! I am seriously considering butchering . altering another LEE mold - take off the base band and one lube groove turns the 459-500-3R into a pointy nose two groove boolit right around 385 grains - single loaded of course ! I just have not shot my 76 past 100yards - happy to blame the operator for any misalignment of boolits at that distance - do you reckon 500yards is do able Huh        

Just couldnt help it could I ? heres a pic of whatI had in mind  - it chambers just off the lands - bit of a trick gettin it back out after ya close the bolt - 65 grains of black and a milk carton wad Huh??

Forgot the picture yesterday


* 45-75 LR.jpeg (85.55 KB, 800x480 - viewed 30 times.)
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Pinback
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« Reply #122 on: March 12, 2018, 10:16:00 am »

Surprisingly enough my next experimental 45-75 loading will be a paper patched bullet cast from a T. Ballard adjustable mold. Depending on the Uberti's throat length I want maximize the bullet length and only seat the bullet .080 into the case. It will be interesting to see the maximum bullet weight I can use. The T. Ballard mold at maximum length yields a 535gr. bullet. That one is a 1000 yard round in a 45-90. Yes, I believe accuracy at 500 yards is easily obtainable using the MVA Soule sight. I'm basing this speculation on the fact that my '76 groups better than my Sharps 1874 45-90 right now at 100 yards with my current loads. Note: I won't be trying any shooting at 1000 yards, I'm old and that's too much walking.
     


* PP 45-90.jpg (399.3 KB, 896x602 - viewed 34 times.)
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dusty texian
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« Reply #123 on: March 12, 2018, 03:40:08 pm »

You fellow's are getting me wound up , in the process of finishing up the wood on the Extra Heavy barrel 45/75 rebuild . Have a set of Winchester long range sights for it , and plan on testing what the old 45/75 can do past the 200yd. line . Interesting bullet you are thinking on with the modified mould  Greyhawk . Pinback looking forward to hearing how the PP bullets work in the 45/75. I have some 350 gr. slicks that will patch up to bore size on my 45/75 , may give them a try in the new bore . Fine sight you have there .,,,,DT
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greyhawk
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« Reply #124 on: March 13, 2018, 01:16:52 am »

You fellow's are getting me wound up , in the process of finishing up the wood on the Extra Heavy barrel 45/75 rebuild . Have a set of Winchester long range sights for it , and plan on testing what the old 45/75 can do past the 200yd. line . Interesting bullet you are thinking on with the modified mould  Greyhawk . Pinback looking forward to hearing how the PP bullets work in the 45/75. I have some 350 gr. slicks that will patch up to bore size on my 45/75 , may give them a try in the new bore . Fine sight you have there .,,,,DT

Dusty --Pinback
Tossing more ideas around here
This round is another option - my modified LEE (was 405 HB - now 405 Flatpoint - no hollow base) My rifle already seems to like this boolit - was at the reloading bench and put this one together as a what if ? - 70 grains of FFF , milk carton wad the boolit is seated a quarter inch in the case (my cases are a tad short = 1.790) this is a fired case not resized - I can push it in the chamber with my thumb - just feel it touch the lands - at the last ----- Pinback I never thought this would go in !!! that Uberti chamber is some roomy up front I think. Dusty I am looking at this one seriously as it has three lube grooves compared to two on the pointy boolit I was thinking about yesterday - will give away a bit of drop at 500yards but proly gonna shoot as flat as my 45/70 I think I go ahead and shoot five of each of these - see what happens.  Only have a marbles tang sight and the original front on this rifle so that may be the limitation (hope so! can soon find something better)
Dusty - do you see any pressure problems with a 400grain boolit on the lands and 70 grains of FFF behind it ?      

ps Pinback - base of case to front of driving band (lands contact) 2.150"


* 45-75 lee long range.jpeg (57.62 KB, 800x480 - viewed 29 times.)
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1876 (Moderator: Grizzly Adams)  |  Topic: Loading Data for the 45/75 « previous next »
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