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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  1911 & Wild Bunch Shooting (Moderators: Jefro, August)  |  Topic: Wild Bunch Leggings? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Wild Bunch Leggings?  (Read 14065 times)
Slowhand Bob
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« on: January 09, 2012, 10:35:52 am »


Guys, since we did not have this in a topic format yet, I decided to start one with my questions.  I would really like to see pictures and links to pictures and sources, if possible.  I plan to either buy or, preferably,  make some leggins in the near future and would like to hear some advice on what is right and what is not.  My first question is, were there any suede or grain leather military leggins that would have been acceptable for the WB  period?  With some patterns this would definitely be doable for me with leather and my preferred route.  It is possible that I maight be able to make my own with canvass  if a pattern source were available or with an old leggin to autopsy for said pattern. 

As a stand alone element of the early military uniforms, can anyone educate me/us.  Who used them, infantry, cavalry, enlisted men, officers, etc etc?   Did it fill a real military need after the turn of the century or had it just become an icon that awaited its demise?  What sort of evolution did they go through as an issued uniform part or were they just to common to have any sort of history?     
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cpt dan blodgett
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2012, 11:18:30 am »

Shipperfabric and what price glory have the leather leggings.  Shipperfabric also has 1910 canvas.  Google Mexican punitive expedition photos and you get a lot of pictures.  Coon Creek Old West sells the 1898 leggins that work just fine, but the later legging in use in 1916 did not cover part of the shoe and really ended at the ankle.  You can see that in a lot of the photos.

You do see a bunch of the 1898 legging at WB matches.  Basically everyone used leggings, officers generally had leather.
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2012, 07:22:38 am »

Slow hand,
In addition to Cpt Dan there are a lot of very knowledgeable folks in the Barracks. It might be agreat place to ask uniform questions.
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2012, 11:35:04 am »

Enlisted folks wore a plain canvas legging while the enlisted Cavalry and Field Artillery wore a canvas legging with Olive or russet leather inside pannels that protected the legs and prevented undue wear while riding a horse.

The officers tended to wear stiff leather puttees, riding boots, or field boots that were private purchase.
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2012, 01:25:29 pm »

I got a pair of the 1989 legging from Coon Creek.  They are very serviceable and the price is most reasonable. 

FWIW, WBAS is not reenacting, and you will find that the few  that do "dress the part" reflect a sorta, kinda, period military look that's......well, at least they are making the effort, and I applaud that!  Unfortunately, my observation is that 85% of the folks shooting WBAS wear the same outfit that shoot Cowboy Action in.  Too bad, really......
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Slowhand Bob
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 01:41:34 pm »

I just bought a pair off ebay that was listed as slightly used WWll canvas repros and they look to be on the green side of olive.  I just hope the size will work for me and yall will just  have to squint hard to git the color right!  Thinking they will come in on Monday?  Still going to need a hat and some boots but it will come together eventually, if I live long enuff!
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Slowhand Bob
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2012, 08:23:54 am »

Here is what I know right now.  Is there much difference between the ones used in WWl?  Surely you guys wouldn't shoot me fer showing up in these modern versions??   Embarrassed


http://www.ebay.com/itm/220982698512?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_1202
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St. George
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 09:08:22 am »

The WWI Leggings are shorter, have four eyelets, plus they're tan and not olive.

Scouts Out!

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Slowhand Bob
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2012, 01:27:25 pm »

WOW, four compared to seventeen, them musta been anklet length leggins!  I could possibly try to mute the color a bit with bleach  but it sounds like these must be three times taller than would work?
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St. George
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2012, 02:05:23 pm »

The American Soldier of the period stood 5'6" and weighted 156 pounds.

The WWI leggings fit 'his' calves to the fullest part - measuring from the top of his field shoe.

Given that so little of the WB match is devoted to historical accuracy - or even fidelity to the movie - I doubt anyone'd notice that you were wearing the WWII-issued pair.

Scouts Out!
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Slowhand Bob
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2012, 05:27:26 pm »

Yep, spect the time they git past laughing bout a wore old old fat man playing WWl soldier dress-up they wont notice a thing!
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RattlesnakeJack
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2012, 01:11:56 am »

I have always been partial to the Stohwasser pattern of leather gaiters/leggings, which derive from a series of patents filed in the United Kingdom, United States and elsewhere in the 1890's.   They are a separate calf-high leather gaiter worn with regular ankle boots, kept snug to the leg contour by a spiral leather strap.  Although most people will be familiar with the style from WW1 photographs, they actually came into common use by mounted troops and officers in British Empire military forces during the Boer War (1899-1902) -

Canadian Mounted Rifles Trooper:


Canadian Mounted Rifles NCO -


Canadian Infantry Officer -


My Canadian Mounted Rifles Boer War kit -


I got my reproduction Stohwasser leggings from Lawrance Ordnance in Australia (who sell them as WWI kit) - http://www.lawranceordnance.com/khaki_and_green/clothing_ww1/leggings.php
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Slowhand Bob
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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2012, 06:19:35 am »

HMMMM, now all I need is a good photo of one stretched out flat and what it appears to be lined with on the underside?  I suspect the stiffness and heat of leather would have been what won the day for canvass?
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Grapeshot
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2012, 09:14:04 am »

I would make the guess that the leather leggings/puttees were wet formed on lasts, allowed to dry and issued to the troops in various sizes.  The originals I have show this method of manufacture.  BICBW.
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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2012, 11:09:24 am »

Yes, these gaiters are wet-shaped to fit the leg contour better.  They are unlined ......  I considered making my own, but didn't have a good grasp on exactly how they were made, nor dimensions and thus decided to buy them.

I did these photos about 6 months ago for another chap who wanted to try making a set.  Dimensions would vary, of course, depending on your size ....









Three guesses on the composition of the ingots I used to weigh them down with for the  "flat" pictures (....... first two guesses don't count!)   Grin
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Nine Toe Jim
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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2012, 03:00:54 pm »

Got Mine from Hayes Otoupalik
http://www.hayesotoupalik.com/WW1%20U.S.%20Field%20Equipment.htm


* WWI Leggings.jpg (29.08 KB, 448x336 - viewed 539 times.)
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Slowhand Bob
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2012, 08:44:07 am »

Darn Jim, thats the same price I just paid for the non-kosher version on ebay.  Wish I had seen them sooner, was there a size choice?  Push come to shove I think I could make a pretty close copy based on Jacks photos but for the time being I will used the space age pair to get started.  Is my assumption that the leather version was most used by officers correct?  I'm sure that leather offered more protection but I am also thinking they would have been hotter and otherwise less comfortable.
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Nine Toe Jim
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2012, 09:04:09 am »

Well Slowhand I took a chance on the size seeing as I have skinny legs. They fit fine but I did have to add an extension to the under boot strap. Fit fine now. If you notice on the website Hayes has both versions. The 4 hole version is a little farther down the page. I opted for the canvas (enlisted) version for the uniform I put together.

NTJ
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RattlesnakeJack
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2012, 01:42:49 pm »

.... Is my assumption that the leather version was most used by officers correct?  I'm sure that leather offered more protection but I am also thinking they would have been hotter and otherwise less comfortable. ....

Stohwasser gaiters were worn by mounted troops of all ranks - note that of the three period photos I posted, one is an NCO and the other a Trooper - but primarily by officers in other branches.  (Indeed, to keep one's outfit consistent with carrying a pistol, I have always been of the view that one should aim towards an impression of someone who properly would carry a pistol .... officers and mounted troops being the primary examples .....)

I actually find my leather gaiters quite comfortable, and no hotter than wearing a high-topped boot.
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2015, 10:32:16 am »

Enlisted folks wore a plain canvas legging while the enlisted Cavalry and Field Artillery wore a canvas legging with Olive or russet leather inside pannels that protected the legs and prevented undue wear while riding a horse.

The officers tended to wear stiff leather puttees, riding boots, or field boots that were private purchase.


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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2015, 12:12:17 pm »

My issue wool puttees are soooo much simpler and uncomplicated. A little more complicated to put on, but oh, so pukkha.
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2015, 02:26:47 pm »

My issue wool puttees are soooo much simpler and uncomplicated. A little more complicated to put on, but oh, so pukkha.

I use those too ....

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Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
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Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2015, 05:55:06 pm »

I see that you wear them with a "blouse" or gather at the knee in British fashion - of course. The American fashion is not to have that, but a rather taut line of the trouser leg. I've found that restricts movement.

I've seen several photos of puttees being worn by individuals in mufti, not uniform. They were sportsmen or hunters.
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« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2015, 05:56:09 pm »

Everything you need for a correct Wild Bunch circa 1916 impression, can be found in these 11 pages:

http://onlinemilitaria.net/products/c183-1878-1938/
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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2015, 06:32:12 pm »

Well, Chuck, not quite everything .... at least not if one wants to do, say, a Canadian impression from the 1901-1916 timeframe.  But WPG also offer lots of stuff to fit such an impression, including reproductions of all components of the 1899 Pattern Oliver Equipment adopted by Canada.  I am wearing just the waist-belt and single centrally-mounted cartridge pouch from this equipment in the photo above) and attach a link to a WPG "1899 Oliver Equipment" search-results page, for the heck of it ....  

http://onlinemilitaria.net/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes&sppp=10&page=1&Keyword=1899%20Oliver&category=ALL&highprice=0&lowprice=0&allwords=1899%20Oliver&exact=&atleast=&without=&cprice=&searchfields=

WPG have even reproduced the short-lived leather carrier for the glass soda water bottle this system originally had in lieu of a proper canteen, but for some reason (perhaps limited market?) they don't seem to include it on their website.  It shows up from time to time in their eBay listings, which is where I got mine ....
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Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/
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