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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderator: Cuts Crooked)  |  Topic: Lyman Great Plains Rifle 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Col.Will B.Havoc
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« on: April 14, 2011, 01:31:23 pm »


I just purchased a Lyman Great Plains rifle. I didn't use due dilligence and didn't check out the rifling twist.
It is 1 in 60. optimized for patched round ball. I don't want to mess with that. Is there a conical or Minie ball that will work with that twist?
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Deadeye Dick
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 01:40:38 pm »

Col,
I have a Lyman Great Plains Rifle. Never used a conical or minie ball in it, but it shoots a round ball real well. Try it, you'll like it.
Deadeye Dick
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2011, 05:01:22 pm »

Try a LEE R.E.A.L. bullet or a Buffalo Ball-et.
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rickk
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 05:12:49 pm »

It's gunna like a round ball. Conicals will probably keyhole. They did for me anyway.

Tighter the better btw. Lots of ball, lots of patch. If you need a hammer to start the ball you are going int he right direction.

Think "1 inch 100 yard groups". Ive got something similar (slow twist green mt barrel) that does that all day.
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Jamie
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 06:56:23 pm »

I've got one in 54 flintlock, and it shoots Buffalo Bullet Ball-ets like it was made for it.  85 grains of ffg was the first load, and at 2 1/2 inches for 3 shots at 50 yards, consistently, I saw no reason to change that.  Missed the only two shots I've had at deer, one at about 70 yards that hit an unseen branch, and having plowed through did not see fit to continue in a straight path.  She stood there speculatively, and then decided that she'd wander back across a posted line by the time I'd reloaded.  She was about 30 yards closer, but she was definitely across the line.  The 110 class eight point that walked past at about 25 yards, on the other side of a prone old oak tree wouldn't stop for a grunt, so I followed, squeezed, and was so occupied focusing on the front sight that I missed the (vertical) three inch branch that suddenly grew between me and him.  Neither shot was the fault of the gun's accuracy.  Just flora helping the fauna.  Give a box of Ball-ets a chance if you really want something that is moderately conical.  On the other hand a .54 round ball is pretty big.  Within 50-75 yards a good shooting roundball from a .50 is nothing to sneeze at, and on broadside shots will go straight through a big whitetail and take the life out pretty quickly.  Never having hunted elk or bear, I can't say, but I think I'd want a conical in a .50 for sure in that case.
Jamie
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Don Nix
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 09:08:37 pm »

Ive had a Great Plains .50 cal for twenty years and have only used round balls. It is as accurate as any muzzle loader that Ive ever had and better than most.
But it is at its best with  about 70 grains of powder. A lot of folks I used ro hunt with used Hawkin style rifles in 50 and 54 cal. and they all subscribed to the notion that you had to load twice the caliber in powder ie. 100 to 110 grns.
 Yet they couldnt hit anything out beyond 75 yds.
 I dropped mine back to 50 grains and it fell right into line and I wortked up to 70 grains and it is dead on at 100 yds.
 It is  ablast tp shoot and easy to maintain and clean. Lyman makes as good a rifle as there is in my opinion.
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Ol Gabe
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2011, 07:49:11 am »

FWIW,
D.N.'s comment about 50 grains is spot on. My old Lyman runs a round ball perfectly when loading 50 behind it with a tight patch.
Use a 50 caliber rifle, 50 grains of BP behind a round ball and you'll hit a Bullseye at 50 yards! It works and will get you plenty of meat and smiles if you practice using the 50-50-50 formula.
Best regards and good shooting!
'Ol Gabe
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Deadeye Dick
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2011, 09:37:11 am »

Quote
Posted by: Don Nix
Insert Quote
Ive had a Great Plains .50 cal for twenty years and have only used round balls. It is as accurate as any muzzle loader that Ive ever had and better than most.
But it is at its best with  about 70 grains of powder. A lot of folks I used ro hunt with used Hawkin style rifles in 50 and 54 cal. and they all subscribed to the notion that you had to load twice the caliber in powder ie. 100 to 110 grns.
 Yet they couldnt hit anything out beyond 75 yds.
 I dropped mine back to 50 grains and it fell right into line and I wortked up to 70 grains and it is dead on at 100 yds.
 It is  ablast tp shoot and easy to maintain and clean. Lyman makes as good a rifle as there is in my opinion.

+1
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2011, 12:57:41 pm »

Try a LEE R.E.A.L. bullet or a Buffalo Ball-et.

+1 on that recommendation. If you are determined to shoot a conical in that twist rate you'll have your best luck with a "short for caliber" projectile.
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Jamestown John
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2011, 01:27:07 am »

I've had my Lyman .50 Great Plains rifle since around 1979. I experimented with loads and early on found that its favorite load is patched .490 round ball with 70 grains of Goex fff black powder. Been using that load all these years Very accurate with that load.
Have fun! It's a great rifle!
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Jamestown John
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2011, 05:50:50 am »

I think the original posting was in reference to there being two different twist rates available in the GPR. Originally it only came in a slow twist but in later years when folks wanted to be able to use a conical for hunting, they brought out a Hunter model with a fast twist.

Without knowing what each poster has when they post recommendations it's kind of a moot point. All of the GPRs I have owned were the older slow twist models that shot great with roundball. Never shot anything but that with great results since minie ball type projectiles belong in Civil War muskets, in my humble opinion. Grin

CR
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Deadeye Dick
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2011, 10:13:26 am »

I think one can safely assume (I know the def. of assume) that the poster's talking about shooting round ball are using the slower 1 in 60 twist. At least I am. I would listen to the suggestion of Jamie and try the ball-et. My rifle is a .50 cal. Not sure if they make a ball-et in .50. I like shooting ball and am not interested in trying them either. 
 
Never shot anything but that with great results since minie ball type projectiles belong in Civil War muskets, in my humble opinion. Grin
CR
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Deadeye Dick
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Forty Rod
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2011, 10:48:21 am »

I've had my Lyman .50 Great Plains rifle since around 1979. I experimented with loads and early on found that its favorite load is patched .490 round ball with 70 grains of Goex fff black powder. Been using that load all these years Very accurate with that load.
Have fun! It's a great rifle!

Got mine about the same time and use the same load.  It works great, BUT the Buffalo Ball-ettes work almost as good.  I still prefer the round ball, though. It's more accurate and seems to be cleaner, maybe because pushing the patched ball down removes some of the fouling each time.

Learn to pre-load a bullet block with eight to ten ball before you go out. (I have carried as many as five 10 shot blocks at one time for matches)  It's much faster once you're at the range.
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Mason Stillwell
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2011, 08:14:19 pm »

I have a Lyman in 54 caliber. Shoots round ball like a tack driver and does ok with the great planes boolit hollow base hollow point.

My $0.02 worth. YE HAAA
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Mason Stillwell


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Jamie
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2011, 09:41:39 am »

Just to add a few comments to what I've already written - my .54 flintlock is a slow twist barrel, and though I only mentioned the Buffalo Bullet Ball-ets, It does shoot really well with patched roundball loads, both .530 and .535 with appropriately tight patches.  I've got a round ball barrel T/C Hawken Target (30" barrel, blued steel furniture, tang ladder type peep and globe front sight) that shoots ONLY roundballs well.  Ball-ets in .50 caliber don't stabilize at all in that gun, but man does a .495 roundball go straight.  I've shot woodchucks at 125 yards (farthest shot with that gun) and it is instant death with anywhere near a good shot.  I've never had a chuck hit with it that even did the tail wiggle.  In addition, it has killed about 10 deer, all but one were one shot kills, and the one that required two shots was absolutely user error.
I don't know what the caliber of the originator of this thread had in his GPR, as he doesn't say, nor why he doesn't want to mess with patched balls.  I've known people who believed that patched balls were too slow to reload when hunting, but speedloaders cure that ill, though frankly, the suggestion of a ball block may well be the fastest reload of all, with easier centering of the ball, etc. and a well lubed ball will make cleaning easier, in my opinion than the conical with it's possibility of leading, and the sabot with the strings of plastic left behind.  By the way, a teakettle full of boiling water, will clean out that plastic like magic.  It comes out in nasty strings, but it does come out. 
It does make sense I suspect to shoot a conical or a REALLY big roundball when hunting bears, elk or moose, but for most hunting, deer on down, at the ranges a muzzleloader is genuinely best at, a round ball will get the job done in my experience.
If you want a 200+ yard gun, you're really talking a different game, and T/C or any of the others will sell you something that will suffice.  For fun?  The round ball gun is an absolute delight.  For typical hunting?  The roundball will get the job done.  For style?  Personally, a side hammer gun makes me feel more like Daniel Boone.  (Yes I realize that in lines in some form have been around almost as long.)  Just some rambling thoughts.
Jamie
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