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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1876 (Moderator: Grizzly Adams)  |  Topic: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF  (Read 71328 times)
Silver_Rings
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« Reply #100 on: June 19, 2014, 07:21:45 pm »

Hi Dave,

If you are using a light load, you will probably get more consistent burn of the powder if you use a filler to hold the powder near the primer.  I use polyfilling, like for filling pillows.  Others use about a 1/4 sheet of toilet paper, others user different things.
 
Silver Rings
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« Reply #101 on: June 19, 2014, 09:59:18 pm »

Teddy Bear Guts. Cheesy  Free or at a nominal price at thrift stores Cool

Another option is to go to a slower powder. My favorite is 4895. I works in many rifle cases and can be loaded down to 60% of a max listed load with great results.
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
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without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
hammer1
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« Reply #102 on: August 04, 2014, 05:49:07 pm »

Thought I would add to the list. Silver Rings gave me some guidance on a load, it was 325 gr fp from buffalo bore, started with 41 grs. Of varget. Stopped at 42, chronographed at 1440, rounded edges still on primers. Thanks, Silver Rings, with the guidance. These loads worked in my rifle, use caution.
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hammer1
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« Reply #103 on: August 24, 2014, 01:17:37 pm »

Ive been experimenting more, with 325 and 350 grs. Ive settled on 40.5 grs of  varget for the 350s it gave me 1356 fps, I also tried 42 grs with the 325 grs. Unfortunately, the chrono zoned out and wouldnt give me a velocity. I tried up to 42 grs with the 350s, lazercasts, the strange thing, the velocity started to drop for me over 40.5 gr. I also had unburned powder grains over 40.5.
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hammer1
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« Reply #104 on: August 31, 2014, 08:55:41 am »

My last two posts were using fed 210m primers, in jamison 45-60 brass. All the loads were from a uberti 1876, with a 28 inch barrel.
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Gabriel Law
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« Reply #105 on: October 04, 2014, 02:59:31 pm »

What OAL are you guys using for your 45-60 cartridges?  I'm using BACo 459300 bullets, and if they are crimped in the groove provided for the purpose, the OAL is ~ 2.187".  Today, I loaded some out to 2.290" - in the top of the upper grease groove - and they ;cycle fine in my Uberti rifle.
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hammer1
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« Reply #106 on: October 05, 2014, 02:04:16 pm »

Gabriel, ive been running 2.290 overall, its been working fine in mine
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Gabriel Law
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« Reply #107 on: October 06, 2014, 02:53:56 pm »

Hammer, that's encouraging.  I was thinking that the closer I can get that bullet to the rifling, without having to travel through space to get there, the better for accuracy.  I just spent $613 for a new MVA tang sight to improve my shooting, and every little bit helps.
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Palatine Tom
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« Reply #108 on: October 08, 2014, 08:34:54 am »

Dear all,

with respect to the subject "bullet travel through space to the rifling..."

I know this is relevant for long range modern cartrige shooting like .308 and so on.

My question: Is this travel through space topic for our old 45-60//45-70 or 44-40 Cartridges as relevant for precission?


Greetings

Tom

Hammer, that's encouraging.  I was thinking that the closer I can get that bullet to the rifling, without having to travel through space to get there, the better for accuracy.  I just spent $613 for a new MVA tang sight to improve my shooting, and every little bit helps.
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Gabriel Law
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« Reply #109 on: October 08, 2014, 01:47:44 pm »

Tom:  it might not make any difference in accuracy at all, but i think it has to.  I know that in my 50-90 Sharps, I get best accuracy if I seat the bullet to just touch the bore.  To be honest, right now I cannot remember if it's the throat or the rifling that makes contact.  I am not too excited about the accuracy I'm getting in my Uberti 45-60 (yet), so I'm doing the best to make accurate ammo.
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matt45
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« Reply #110 on: November 06, 2014, 10:37:10 am »

When you refer to the Lee crimp die, I presuming you mean that collet die that can be used for any bullet.  Where can I get such a beast?  Thanks ahead of time.
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Silver_Rings
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« Reply #111 on: November 07, 2014, 07:55:15 pm »

The easy way to get the Lee factory crimp die is to contact Lee.  The die is a custom item and I think will run about $80.  You can buy a 45-70 Lee factory crimp die and modify it by filing / grinding.  This modification is discribed in a post here a number of years ago.

Silver Rings
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matt45
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« Reply #112 on: November 08, 2014, 10:38:40 am »

     As it sits, the cost is still pretty reasonable- $25 w/ a six buck tooling fee.  The guy I spoke w/ yesterday said there is about a 6 week lead time.  They had some 45-90's on hand, but as you've pointed out, grinding would be necessary.
     My thought is that a 45-60 die would work on any of the 45 straight wall cases, and a factory crimp die would hold the bullets in the tubular magazine better than a roll crimp.  From reading this thread, it sounds like the best loads fill the case anyway.  Am I wrong on my assumptions?
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matt45
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« Reply #113 on: November 09, 2014, 12:26:02 pm »

Here is another question for the board- The factory brass for the 45-60 (jameison, I presume) has a rim slightly larger than my 45-70 stuff- my shellholder for the 45-70 is a little tight.  Has anyone else encountered this, and what were their solutions Huh
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rbertalotto
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« Reply #114 on: November 10, 2014, 08:38:24 am »

Bullets next to lands....

The folks that really get the most accuracy out of lead bullets and cartridges, "breech seat" the bullet. They force a bullet into the lands without a cartridge. Then they take a cartridge full of powder and chamber it behind the bullet......BANG!

This is the best way to get the best accuracy out of a BPCR. So I'd suggest that getting the bullet as close to the lands as possible will have merit.
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matt45
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« Reply #115 on: November 23, 2014, 07:13:40 pm »

Hello the Camp
     I am a newbie to the board, but have found in the past several days that the 45-60 responds amazingly well to uniforming the flash holes and uniforming the primer pockets.  My rifle (Uberti) also likes Federal primers in both Black and Smokeless loads.  I am using the JBL brass, so such might not be a universal.
 
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matt45
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« Reply #116 on: November 30, 2014, 02:20:04 pm »

Paying tribute to Silver Rings, and his format:
     Firing from a Uberti w/ 28" barrel, Altitude 5975, Temp 17.9 F, barometer 29.56
     38.0 grs. IMR 4895, Jamison cases, Fed 210 primers, 300gr Meistercast bullets
                                                              Hi- 1337
                                                              Lo- 1258
                                                             Avg.- 1295
                                                             SD- 27.3
     Grp size 1" to 1 1/2" (5 shot groups) @ 50 yards, 15 rds fired  

... and as always, not tested for pressure, use @ your own risk
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Gabriel Law
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« Reply #117 on: December 03, 2014, 12:44:01 pm »

Matt 45:  what sights are you using on your rifle?
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matt45
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« Reply #118 on: December 03, 2014, 07:27:31 pm »

Still waiting on the base for the MVA sight- same as yours.  These groups were shot w/ the stock buckhorn.
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Sir Charles deMouton-Black
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« Reply #119 on: December 03, 2014, 11:05:14 pm »

Paying tribute to Silver Rings, and his format:
     Firing from a Uberti w/ 28" barrel, Altitude 5975, Temp 17.9 F, barometer 29.56
     38.0 grs. IMR 4895, Jamison cases, Fed 210 primers, 300gr Meistercast bullets
                                                              Hi- 1337
                                                              Lo- 1258
                                                             Avg.- 1295
                                                             SD- 27.3
     Grp size 1" to 1 1/2" (5 shot groups) @ 50 yards, 15 rds fired  

... and as always, not tested for pressure, use @ your own risk

Matt; I'm glad it worked out for you. In my .45-70 BLR/src I stopped at the same load as the recoil in a carbine is quite stout.
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
matt45
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« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2014, 10:43:33 am »

I don't have an Oealher (sp?) but...  The case expansion @ the base of the case is quite a bit less than the 30grs. of 4198, so I've got a batch of 40grs of 4895 to test.  Needless to say, and to give all credit where it is due, I think Silver Rings has done most of the grunt work.
     Anyone ever tried WW 748?  I've had good luck w/ that in my 45-70
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matt45
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« Reply #121 on: January 29, 2015, 05:28:59 pm »

Temp- 29.1 F, barometer- 29.76, Altitude 5795 ft.
Uberti w/ 28" barrel
42 grs IMR 4895, Fed large rifle primers

AVG- 1477 fps
Hi- 1527
Low- 1428
SD- 37.9

I note that this is not as consistent as the 38 gr. load was.  This tells me this is probably the top level for this powder.  Group size is still consistent @ the 1.25 @ 50 yds., however.
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Zeroin
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« Reply #122 on: February 17, 2015, 06:18:48 pm »

Ok, new to reloading the 45-60 so why don't I see anybody using jacketed bullets?
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Silver_Rings
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« Reply #123 on: February 17, 2015, 07:12:58 pm »

I don't need jacketed bullets for shooting targets.  Also jacked bullets are not allowed in CAS matches. 

Some people have talked on this forum about using jacketed bullets.  No reason you can't use them.

Silver Rings
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matt45
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« Reply #124 on: February 25, 2015, 08:41:52 pm »

Just went through the intermediate testing with Varget, and am about ready to stop testing.  The results are excellent- 3/4 groups being the standard.  This is a powder/ bullet combo (Varget- 300 gr cast) that I would suggest as a starting point for Uberti barrels.
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1876 (Moderator: Grizzly Adams)  |  Topic: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF « previous next »
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