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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  BOLD Chambers (Moderator: California Lawdawg)  |  Topic: Retired Law Enforcement Officer Self Defense Insurance 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Retired Law Enforcement Officer Self Defense Insurance  (Read 9746 times)
BlackHawkPaul
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« on: December 20, 2010, 09:55:30 pm »


New NRA Policy just for 218 permit holders! Link-
http://www.locktonaffinity.com/nrains/retiredofficer.htm

LEOSA": "218" Insurance Providers- (Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act)
 
 There are currently 3 providers of insurance covering "218" concealed carry. The links to these programs are listed below. In summary, the Professional Law Enforcement Association and the FOP/Hylant McLean programs sell legal defense insurance to provide lawyers for your criminal civil defense. Locktonrisk program of the NRA sells a combination insurance that provides both lawyers for criminal/civil defense and also pays damages up to stated amounts if you lose a suit. If you are an active duty officer and carry, you may be protected in some scenarios by "Good Samaritan" liability limitation laws. There are not yet any "Good Samaritan" Laws for "218" retirees.   
 
http://www.plea.net/HR218.htm
 
http://www.hylant.com/fop/hr218.htm
 
Many officers who carry as retirees or while off-duty under "218" are under the msitaken impression that their homeowners insurance policy or an extended "umbrella policy" will protect them for "218" CCW related acts. Such policies may indeed cover accidents, unintentional and negligent acts. However, such policies do NOT cover intentional acts of self-defense or intentional torts. Contact you  insurance carrier and ask pointed questions about scenarios in which you might intentionally use force to learn the difference. Accidents, negligence and unintentional acts might include accidental discharge, hunting accidents. Your insurance agent who wishes to keep your homeowners business may give you an ambiguous or encouraging answer to keep you as a customer. However, this insurance agent will not come to the police station to help you after you have shot someone in self-defense.
 
Lately, guns salesmen I am acquainted with have also advised that many "218" retirees seek to buy cheaper quality firearms that are not similar to what they carried while active. Further, many retirees advise these salesmen that although they have not shot in years they do not wish to take available refresher courses. Some of these cheapskates come back for the refresher courses after failing to pass the "218" qualification course. All LEO's have been afforded an honor and a privilege in 218. Spend a little time and money to make sure that you are covered! No legal advice is intended here and you must check with your own paid counsel to get real legal opinions.
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Don Nix
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 10:38:05 pm »

This is really good advice.
 I have recently run into a problem locally. I am retired from the Sheriffs dept. and althoughthe new Sheriff  has been in office two plus years he does not have a certified firearms instructor,relying on the loacl city PD to qualify his deputies.
 When i asked about getting requalified he  said all retirees would be qualified when the department qualified twice a year and we would be notified.
 Last week i spoke with one of his deputies and he informe that 218 qualification was going to intail a class and paperwork filed with the state minimum standards board and the Dept did not have anyone qualified to to instruct the class. So no qualification for retired officers in our old department.
 So now Im up a creek. guess I'll just have to get a CCw permit until this guy gets his head outta his a$$.
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Shotgun Franklin
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2010, 09:22:00 am »

I would think that just having a CCW instructor let you shot the State course would do. Ask and see. In fact check with your State Police Agency and see what they say.
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BlackHawkPaul
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 09:11:54 pm »

It is NOT the CCW instructors that do the 218 quals but rather the instructors certified by the state's law enforcement training standards board. Some instructors have both certifications. How easy or friendly thisis depends upon what state you are in and what effrots have been made by your training standards board to make it available. It is supposed to be done in your state of residence. Here is a link to the Illinois version:
http://www.irocc.org/home.html

Find and look up your own state's version!
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Shotgun Franklin
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 10:56:23 pm »

While I haven't checked into this, I do know that Texas is real gun friendly. Off hand I know 3 Instructors who'd let me shoot a course. There doesn't seem to be a point in requiring a Retired Officer to meet a higher standard than required for a CC Permit.
Have you ran this by the NRA? The way it's set up it'd be to easy for a state to keep you from qualifying. This also may change under the new Congress.
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Don Nix
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 11:37:38 pm »

I've really been studying this in the past few days. it seems that Obama signed a revision into law in October  of this year that clarifies things a bit. It lowers theh  time served from 15 to 10 years and takes out the "retired clause  and adds to served in excxess of ten years.
 It also states that you do not have to meet the State standard only, it gives the option of a retired officer meeting the standard set by his department, the state standard or  failing that a state qualified instructor. I may be misreading the new law but i am thinking that it may do away with States all having different criteria and the issuing of a state certification.
 Instead you must carry a photo ID from your department and proof of yearly qualification.
 I have sent an email to the NRA to get some clarification but have not heard anything back as yet.
 The new law is LEOSA 2010 and it looks like a pretty good deal to me. I am totally surprised that Obama signed it into law but I am glad that it did.
 
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BlackHawkPaul
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 09:11:26 am »

It ain't an NRA affair. It was written and passed by LEAA, an affiliate of NRA and there is much info re 218 at-
http://www.leaa.org/218/index.html

Here is some info about Texas  LEOSA concealed carry-
http://bonzerwolf.livejournal.com/161471.html

Get you a Retired Officers Proficiency Card!
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Don Nix
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 01:00:20 pm »

Didnt say it was a NRA affair but the NRA legal branch keeps current on individual state regs.
Also the LEAA link has the old law HR218 posted. The new bill  S.1132 LEOSAImprovements Act has ammended that law and is now in effect as of Oct. 12 2010.
Accordingly ,retired officers now must only meet the requirements of their former dept., the state requirements or the requirements  of any dept. within the state that the qualifying instructor and retired officer resides. You must carry an ID from the dept from which you retired and a document stating that you qualified within the previous 12 mo period.
 I my case I intend to catch one of the city PD instructors and set a date to qualify.
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Shotgun Franklin
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 03:29:24 pm »

I guess my only question would be, do you have to qualify with that Depatment's type firearm or will they have a course for the gun you carry?
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BlackHawkPaul
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 06:47:41 pm »

Am on my 5th 218 requal. Call your own state's law enforcement training standards board and find out where they have quals.
 approved Texas firearms list-
http://www.aproa.org/firearms.html

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Shotgun Franklin
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 08:38:40 pm »

My pardner called DPS Austin. He was told that a CC course was enough to keep you certified.
I have a feeling that whatever you do you better have something in writing from DPS.
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BlackHawkPaul
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« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2010, 07:10:50 pm »

and some insurance!
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Shotgun Franklin
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« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2010, 10:29:04 pm »

Or start hanging Lawyers.
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Texas Lawdog
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2010, 03:18:33 am »

I retired from my Dept. about a year ago. I was not given a "retired" ID. I had to turn in both my issued ID's, but I was not issued anything to prove I was a retired officer. I had 25 years in this dept. and 14 years as a city officer. I attended a CCW class and received my license. I served all my time as an officer in Texas and the Dept. I retired from was a large one. I don't think that  they liked the idea of their "retired" officers walking around "armed".  My CCW license is good for 5 years, so that will do for now.
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Shotgun Franklin
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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 09:14:18 am »

I don't know who you worked for but they broke the law. Contact them and request your retirement ID, if they refuse then you ought to contact DPS. One of the biggest misconceptions in Law Enforcement is that Cops don't have rights.
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BlackHawkPaul
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2010, 09:37:48 am »

Texas lawdog- Your story doesn't make sense. Some of the big cheeses in every department also want to get and crave the 218 permits so they all issue them. And/or the union memebrs woudl screech to the heavens about not getting them. You just have to talk nicey nice to the right people i nadminsitration to get a photo ID fro myour old department as required by 218. Ya can't tough talk them admins to get said creds but it is worth it to get the 218 permit. USe honey, not vinegar and inquire sweetly and get you a photo ID
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Don Nix
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2010, 10:25:59 am »

Texaslawdog that is exactly the situation up here. It took years to get a "retired"ID. Then after the advent of the 218 law they were issued. Now the new sheriff is still behind the curve on the law and is holding up the qualifications. This new law that was signed in October should bypass that, in that it makes provisions to  qualify  with your local dept. You still must have a picture ID to document your service but even the retired portion has been lifted. it now reads 10 years aggragate service with a Law enforcement agency. All in all its a good deal Now we just have to get the word out to all these Departments that they are not treating the retired officers right by not issuing these ids .
 It seems funny to me that a man could work for a Dept for 20 plus years, serve as training officer, instructor, supervisor and train all the young cops on a department. then when he retires they think he shouldnt carry an ID or a weapon. AS IF HE WILL ACT ANY DIFFERENT JUDGEMENTALLY THAN HE DID WHEN HE WAS FULLY EMPLOYED. But since this has come up I have heard more stories just like that. Its ridiculous but it happens.
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Texas Lawdog
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« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2010, 01:53:21 am »

Don, That's exactly what I am talking about. I worked for 5 different Sheriff's in my 25 years at the Dept. I never was very good at playing nice nice. I really don't need one of their "retired" cards since I got my CCW renewed. I had one before I ever retired. I am happy with the Permit.
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BlackHawkPaul
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« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2010, 10:33:41 pm »

Texas guys- I assure you that th ebig cheeses who retire get themselves a retired ID s othey can get a 218 permit good in all 50 states and US possessions. Ain't there a union in these departments? the 218 permit is really good. AS we get older and crankier near retirement we have to play nive to process out on the pension and shoudl try a fake smile to get a photo ID. I can guarantee you that the big cheeses got themselves a photo ID to get a 218 permit and that the yes men all get them too.
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  BOLD Chambers (Moderator: California Lawdawg)  |  Topic: Retired Law Enforcement Officer Self Defense Insurance « previous next »
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