Correcting an arbor fit issue on my 1851 Colt Navy.

[RollingThunder]

Mine is an Armi San Marco Confederate Colt Navy -- Brass. Don't know if it's screwed in or pinned in, or held in by bailing twine and luck.

How well would the epoxy idea work, as far as it adhering to the arbor, and doing so under percussion?

[44caliberkid]

Mine was an 1861 Navy made by ASM.  It's an older one, probably early 1980's.   Also did the same with an 1860 Army made by Uberti about 1990.  Neither had a pinned arbor.   I stated in my original post that I had someone else do the welding and machining.  It took him less than an hour and less than $20.   
   Apparently many BP revolvers don't have pinned arbors because the articles I read before doing this stated the arbor may be pinned or not.   One was the Sam Fadala book and another was from a muzzel loading website telling how to make a target revolver from a Colt-pattern pistol.
  Rolling Thunder, cock your pistol then look at the frame under the hammer.   If it's pinned you'll see the top of the pin, a circle about 1/8 inch diameter, it's ground flush to the frame.  It goes down through the end of the arbor.  If it's burned black under there you might have to clean off some carbon to see it.
  "The pin is to keep the arbor from rotating."     With the barrel installed and the wedge in, how could the arbor ever rotate.  It can only rotate with the barrel off, and you can't operate it that way anyhoo.

[Pettifogger]

"The pin is to keep the arbor from rotating."  Huh   With the barrel installed and the wedge in, how could the arbor ever rotate.  It can only rotate with the barrel off, and you can't operate it that way anyhoo."

Sometimes when they get dirty people will get the barrel part way off and it will stick, so they twist the barrel.  If they aren't staked and are a little loose the arbor will twist with the barrel.  They also tend to loosen up with use.  It's not unusual to see one with a little wobble in the arbor.  OK for shootin as long as it doesn't get to loose and the barrel starts wiggling even with the wedge installed.

I will admit you have persuaded me.  Arbors are super simple to remove, repair and replace.

[Flint]

Pettifogger,

The only Colt type frames I've seen with no locking pin are the brass framed revolvers, and it's the difference in hardness between the steel arbor and the brass frame that makes it next to impossible to drill a hole in half of each without the drill wandering off to the soft side.

Besides the softer material deforming at the thread from recoil, bullet pull at the forcing cone and bore, etc., I imagine the lack of locking pin would contribute to the brass frame arbor loosening over time and use.

Also seen some other brands, sometimes ASM or such without.

Original Colts had a tapered locking pin.

[RollingThunder]

My mistake. It's not pinned. I just got home and checked it. What I thought was a pin was actually a hole that points in the same direction as the arbor (parallel, not perpendicular), and is aligned with the top of the arbor.

Another question is, while this is obviously a fit and accuracy issue, does this pose an issue as far as any potential damage to the pistol?

[Pettifogger]

The pin is parallel with the arbor.  It goes lengthwise from the hammer channel toward the muzzle.  Half the hole should be in the frame and the other half in the arbor.  When the pin is hammered in, the arbor cannot be unscrewed.

[Mako]

My mistake. It's not pinned. I just got home and checked it. What I thought was a pin was actually a hole that points in the same direction as the arbor (parallel, not perpendicular), and is aligned with the top of the arbor.

Another question is, while this is obviously a fit and accuracy issue, does this pose an issue as far as any potential damage to the pistol?

Ahhh... another ASM with a missing pin.  Yours will screw off quite easily now and you can have it worked on to your heart’s content.  When you put it back on you should secure it with a new pin after you have your length set.  It's not just because yours is Brass, I have one with a steel frame that fell out.  They used a taper pin just like Colt used to.  I reamed mine with a straight reamer and put a piece of drill rod in, it's not moving.

It's probably not a safety issue at this point, BUT the loose arbor will wallow your Brass frame out.  The thread engagement  will just continue to get looser.  So, yes it will damage your frame in the long run, but Brass frames get looser in the long run anyway.  The barrel bottoming out will give you a more stable arrangement instead of it resting on the wedge and the wedge hole.  The wedge was meant to lock it in place not be a support piece.

Regards,
Mako

[RollingThunder]

Thanks for all the great advice everyone! I'm glad there's a forum that is so willing to share their knowledge on this.

So technically, the effective fix at this point is to measure the amount of difference between the end of the arbor and the end of the arbor hole, by measuring the overrun amount on the frame, unscrew the arbor carefully so as not to damage the threads on the brass part, add filler to it, file it to the correct size and screw the arbor back in, re-pinning it afterwards.

Or would it be just as effective to do as 44 recommended, take some tape and wrap it around the arbor to create a form and then create a fill of something like JB Weld and file it down from there? That sounds safer to me, considering I don't particularly like the idea of potentially screwing up the brass threads by either over-torquing the arbor on it's way in, or mis-aligning the wedge. And considering I can check the arbor fit as it sit in it's actual position, maybe that's the safer bet for a newbie like me, considering I'm new to black powder, much less black powder gunsmithing.

Either way, I'll need a new pin. Any ideas where to look? I tried looking on Dixie Gun Works and Traditions, and can't find them. Maybe I'm just not calling them by the correct name.

[Pettifogger]

If you are talking about the arbor pin it is a non-critical piece.  Just find a nail the right OD and cut a piece out of that.  That way if you ever have to remove it again it is soft enough to drill back out.

[Mako]

If you are talking about the arbor pin it is a non-critical piece.  Just find a nail the right OD and cut a piece out of that.  That way if you ever have to remove it again it is soft enough to drill back out.

Pettifogger is correct.  Don't overcomplicate it just because I did .  I apologize if my explanation of what I did made you think it was a complicated gunsmithing procedure. I just made the hole pin hole straight walled because it was wallowed out and I had straight reamers. 

Pettifogger is also correct about the soft pin, the O-1 drill rod I used would be about HRB 104 (equivalent to HRC 28) in hardness.  A common bright nail  would probably be in the  HRB 56 range.

It's not Rocket Surgery…

Mako