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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  CAS FAQ (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Will Ketchum)  |  Topic: on using Lee dippers with Trail Boss 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: on using Lee dippers with Trail Boss  (Read 15023 times)
N40W111
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« on: March 27, 2008, 11:53:38 am »


Hi all...
New to CAS and just getting my guns.  I already have a Cimarron P Jr. in .38 and a Marlin 1894C in .357.  I have a little Lee Loader (the little red box unit) in .38 special that I want to use to start my first reloadings.  I also have a box of 125 LRNFP cast bullets that I want to use.
Here's the question:
I also bought a bottle of Trail Boss powder but I can't seem to find a reliable data sheet for this powder using Lee dippers.  I'm kinda thinking that the .7 dipper with the 125 gr. might work but don't want to blow the gun.  Do any of you have a conversion chart for Lee dippers using Trail Boss?  Will I get an acceptable load with the above recipe?
Thanks.
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Cyrille
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2008, 05:19:16 pm »

Never used "Trail Boss" in my reloads.  Mr. Lee in his book "Modern Reloading Second Edition" doesn't list "Trail Boss"
in his powder selections for your particlar loading. However Hodgedon does. Their 2008 Annual Manual Reloading has it listed on pg.161. I suggest you buy a scale either a balance type or electronic and weigh your charge(s).
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Athena Jake
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2008, 05:51:28 pm »

I also bought a bottle of Trail Boss powder but I can't seem to find a reliable data sheet for this powder using Lee dippers.  I'm kinda thinking that the .7 dipper with the 125 gr. might work but don't want to blow the gun.  Do any of you have a conversion chart for Lee dippers using Trail Boss?  Will I get an acceptable load with the above recipe?
Thanks.

I have used the .7 dipper for .38 specials under a 130 grain bullet, and a good crimp using Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Loading data from Hodgson lower level specifies 3.0 grains.  The .7 dipper comes out a little higher, see the calculations below, and my scale confirmed this.

TB as it has been termed "little termite doughnuts" is hard to strike off of a dipper, and your loads may vary by as much as +/- .1 grain.  Now saying that, my friend and I have hit every thing the barrel was pointed at.  It is good for the CAS shooting.  Used this load in his Remington Conversions, and in a Rossi lever action with no ill effects.  He has even scored well shooting in a pistol competition for score (10 - 15 yards). 
Also known as we ain't out shooting the quality of this load!

Here is the VMD and calculation information for Trail boss:  (found here: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-220900.html)
IMR Trail Boss VMD is .2172
Multiply charge in grains by VMD for volume in CC

Example: 3 x .2172 = 0.6516

Your 0.7 CC dipper will get you about 3.22 grains of TB.
Full calculation is     .7 dipper / .2172 TB VMD = 3.2228360957642725598526703499079 grains

Trail boss reloading data:
http://www.imrpowder.com/trailboss.html

On Lee Precision's website, VMD data:
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD'S.pdf
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Athena Jake Elder
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N40W111
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2008, 11:31:55 am »

This info, gentlemen, is exactly what I was looking for.  I really appreciate the responses.  I just bought a Lee Hand Press this weekend and until I can buy some scales, I'm gonna just use the dippers to load with but didn't want to go ahead until I got some info. 
Much appreciated!
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Athena Jake
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2008, 05:48:10 pm »

Glad to assist in the spread of knowledge.

Lord knows I have gained since I started reading, searching and asking.
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Athena Jake Elder
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2008, 09:13:50 pm »

Soo I had a slow moment and decided to fill out what all the Lee dippers might be using trail boss.
Calculated out to a few decimal points and then rounded up.  Verified the Lee measurements also round up on their calculations to 1 decimal point.  My formulas are at the bottom as needed to check my math, please do your own math before relying on my word for this.  It is what I use, but I do not want any one relying on my math and blowing some part of their anatomy off. Shocked


Lee Dipper     TRAIL BOSS     Calculated to:
0.3                1.4 grains        1.38121547
0.5                2.3 grains        2.302025783
0.7                3.2 grains        3.222836096
1                   4.6 grains        4.604051565
1.3                6.0 grains        5.985267035
1.6                7.4 grains        7.366482505
1.9                8.7 grains        8.747697974
2.2                10.1 grains        10.12891344
2.5                11.5 grains        11.51012891
2.8                12.9 grains        12.89134438
3.1                14.3 grains        14.27255985
3.4                15.7 grains        15.65377532
3.7                17.0 grains        17.03499079
4                   18.4 grains        18.41620626
4.3                19.8 grains        19.79742173

Trail Boss  VMD = 0.2172
Calc for CC     gn*vmd=cc
Calc for gn     cc/vmd=gn
Calc for VMD   cc/gn=vmd

I did this on an excel spread sheet so I did not have to burn up any pencils figuring it all out.
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Athena Jake Elder
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 07:14:17 pm »

Howdy Athena Jake Huh Cool

           Thanks for taking the time to do this, and sharing it with us , this will come in handy, and i'll keep a copy of this with my notes on loading  Wink Cheesy


                                                                 tEN wOLVES  Wink Cheesy Grin               
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 07:21:20 pm »

45 Colt can take 4.5 - 5.8 gr TrailBoss.  According to the above table, the only dipper that could be used would be No. 1 for 4.6 gr, which is a very light load at the bottom end of the chart, which might work for some people.   
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2017, 08:15:53 pm »

I often make my own dippers from range pick-up cartridge cases. Try the cheaperundirt .40 S&W case. Glue or solder a handle & Roberts yer Fatherz Bruther. If it's not exactly to your liking, use a file!
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2017, 08:58:05 pm »

I believe the Lee Dipper Set has a sliding chart in it for most powders.
Necromancy anyone?
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2017, 11:07:23 pm »

I often make my own dippers from range pick-up cartridge cases. Try the cheaperundirt .40 S&W case. Glue or solder a handle & Roberts yer Fatherz Bruther. If it's not exactly to your liking, use a file!

I have done so, myself.  But to get a specific charge I slowly melt solder into the bottom of the brass case dipper to reduce the internal volume, instead of filing it down.

Also, as I saw the chart above by Athena Jake, I thought, don't recall seeing this years ago and I should save it to the reloading folder on my computer.  Turns out I did so 9 years ago and forgot.
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Professor Marvel
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« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2017, 04:19:38 pm »

I have done so, myself.  But to get a specific charge I slowly melt solder into the bottom of the brass case dipper to reduce the internal volume, instead of filing it down.
....

By Golly, Abilene I like that! I never thought of it myself, but now you have my little grey cells working overtime
on a strange and nepharious necrophineous diabolical project....

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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2017, 07:43:42 pm »

Perfesser, I would be sure to let the lead cool completely before checking the measurement!
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Sir Charles deMouton-Black
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2017, 10:32:10 am »

Perfesser, I would be sure to let the lead cool completely before checking the measurement!

 Cheesy Cheesy
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THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
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