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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1876 (Moderator: Grizzly Adams)  |  Topic: Let's Start a List: Chaparral and Uberti Production Problems 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Poll
Question: Few replica rifles 'Out of the Box' do not have any problems with the rifle.  What problems have you had with your rifle, if any?
Cartridge Lip Missing on Bolt Base - 8 (5%)
Firing Pin Hole Not Cut Correctly - 6 (3.7%)
Carrier Block Droops Below Receiver - 8 (5%)
Excess Head Space - 11 (6.8%)
Spent Case Does Not Eject from Receiver - 5 (3.1%)
Magazine Ring Doesn't Fit Flush into Dovetail Cut - 7 (4.3%)
Magazine Plug Lip Doesn't Fit Flush into Barrel Cut - 9 (5.6%)
I had to Send the Rifle Back for Replacement - 14 (8.7%)
Other Problem(s) - 36 (22.4%)
My Rifle is Slick as a Whistle - 57 (35.4%)
Total Voters: 113

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Author Topic: Let's Start a List: Chaparral and Uberti Production Problems  (Read 111774 times)
john boy
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« on: December 07, 2007, 01:58:17 pm »


Let's Start a List:
Was your Chaparral or Uberti '76 Winchester slick as a whistle - Out of the Box ... or was there problems with it? 

If you had (have) problems with your rifle, what did you do to correct it or what do you intend to do to resolve it?

In the poll, you can vote up to 9 of the options - if you experienced all 9 listed.  If you encountered a problem that is not listed, please vote for Option 9 and explain what it was in the thread
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2007, 03:21:56 pm »

OK... I might have done you dirt ....

I voted slick as a whistle... But it was a Henry,  in fact I have two , one Steel Frame & one Brass Frame both were flawless in operation out of the boxes.. though the Brass Frame was LNIB to me ,as it was owned & traded for a Uberti 76 by the pervious owner.
The Steel frame was Brand new in the box... just this past June 07...

Update: July 22, 2008
I've had the Steel frame a year now..and it is still problem free..
I shot it more than the brass frame beause the Butt plate is somewhat more confortable than the sharper Brass Mil. Frame's Cresent butt.
However, both are on target with Black Dawg factory rounds.

I'd also like to point out these are my 2nd and 3rd Uberti Henry's , I had a Allen Arms Uberti with a [AH] 1981 date
I never should have sold... It is still in the same friends hands and he shoots again me and a some faster too ! Angry (only sometimes though ) Tongue

Update Jan. 19, 2015
I was reading a new post up on page 6 and recalled this post from 7 years ago ...
Time has indeed marched on and several changes have happened   ...

1. The above Allen Arms Uberti I sold ...I bought back,  the old friend retired from shooting and the 44/40 Henry is back in my safe.
2. I received an Henry Repeating Arms H011 Henry in 44/40 in Nov. 2013  for the purpose of Gun Test Article.
    The gun remains in my Battery

So that's  4 Henry's   # 1 is back were it started and ....All have performed flawlessly , with minor exception of the follower spring
one # 1 which was kinked , back when I owned it the first time around.... That was more hang up on Horse back and branch
which swiveled the Muzzle open ...not really a gun flaw... only part ever replaced.  
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2007, 03:46:23 pm »

The rear sight on mine was a piece of crap...ladder wouldn't lay flat and it took an effort to slide the sight up and down.
They sent me another one...about on par with the first one.
Ended up putting an old Marbles sight on it that I had here at the house.
May leave it on there...just a hunting rifle and I'll never shoot it much past 100 yards anyway.
Besides...it's kinda grown on me now.
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2007, 09:20:41 pm »

I have the Uberti 1876 in 45-75 from Taylor's. Delivered new. Here goes: two cut dents on the wrist, round ding the size of a button on the left side of the buttstock, The metal to wood fit is horrible, wood is wavy, wood on left side of wrist at the tang there's a jagged gap about 1/8" wide. Could've sent it back, they were willing to look at it and pay the shipping, I just didn't think I'd get one to my satisfaction, seen many Uberti rifles and lately they're poorly finished. However being a gunsmith I've decided to make a nice little project out of it, recolor case reciever, and restock, Oh, and also there's a ding on the corner of the barrel flats, again I'll probably draw file the barrel over again since the flats are too rounded over for my liking.
I've read somewhere that the 76 was probably the best finished rifles of all the Winchesters, and that's just what this one is going to be. Too bad it wasn't like that from the factory.
Just to be fair, the action seems to be just fine, haven't shot it yet so I'll reserve judgement on it's function.
Carver
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2007, 11:30:36 pm »

My Cimarron 1876 is in 45-60.  Fit and finish is top drawer, and it was slick right out of the box.  Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2007, 11:34:08 pm »

I don't know how to vote in the pol, I see no way to do so. I don't particularly like the rear sight of my Chaparral. Just don't really like a deep V type sight and I'm not real impressed by the quality of it but it works fair. I am getting to where I can shoot this sight but it will eventually be replaced. That's it for problems, it functions fine, with loads it likes it is spooky accurate, and if the sights were better I'm sure it would be better yet.
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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2007, 11:56:07 pm »

I don't know how to vote in the pol, I see no way to do so. I don't particularly like the rear sight of my Chaparral. Just don't really like a deep V type sight and I'm not real impressed by the quality of it but it works fair. I am getting to where I can shoot this sight but it will eventually be replaced. That's it for problems, it functions fine, with loads it likes it is spooky accurate, and if the sights were better I'm sure it would be better yet.

I have a buddy with a Chap 76 in 45-60 that is "spooky accurate" as well.  They are putting good barrels on those rifles!  I think John Boy has one that is also a real shooter. Wink
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2007, 06:47:54 am »

Howdy Pards
I have a Cimarron Uberti 1876 4560 for 3 or 4 months now, shot 250 rounds through it.
It is  beautiful fit & finish and deadly accurate.
Dusty Ed Wink
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2007, 08:46:25 am »

The only problem I've had so far was with my NWMP SRC is the loading gate finish but I very quickly got a new loading gate.  It is put away while I'm working on wearing this one out.   Wink  So, I voted Other Problem(s).  I haven't found any other yet.  The headspace issue... might be an issue of widely varying brass specs...  Grin

BTW FWIW, I came to this topic and can't vote either.  Only shows poll results.  Did you set the time for the poll correctly?
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2007, 10:32:57 am »

My Uberti 1876 fom Taylors would not consistently chamber rounds smoothly.  I had to really slam the lever to get the round to chamber.  I stopped doing that quickly as I was afraid I might have a premature detonation.  Lips Sealed   I called Taylors myself, told them my problem and who my FFL was.  They said send it back.  I took it to my FFL and he sent it back.  I had the rifle back within a week (no lie).  Now it loads, chambers and ejects like a dream  I was told by Tom the gunsmith at Taylors that the "tab under the bolt was squared off when it should have had more of an angle to it". He blamed this on Uberti and called them himself to explain the problem.  I am suspecting the problem has now been fixed at the Uberti factory.  I am very happy with the gun now.  The wood to metal fit is great and the wood on the stock looks good.   Taylors will stand behind what they sell so do not hesitate to send guns back if they arent working as they should out of the box. 

Regards. Deadeye.
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2007, 03:24:28 pm »

I have the Uberti 1876 in 45-75 from Taylor's. Delivered new. Here goes: two cut dents on the wrist, round ding the size of a button on the left side of the buttstock, The metal to wood fit is horrible, wood is wavy, wood on left side of wrist at the tang there's a jagged gap about 1/8" wide. Could've sent it back, they were willing to look at it and pay the shipping, I just didn't think I'd get one to my satisfaction, seen many Uberti rifles and lately they're poorly finished. However being a gunsmith I've decided to make a nice little project out of it, recolor case reciever, and restock, Oh, and also there's a ding on the corner of the barrel flats, again I'll probably draw file the barrel over again since the flats are too rounded over for my liking.
I've read somewhere that the 76 was probably the best finished rifles of all the Winchesters, and that's just what this one is going to be. Too bad it wasn't like that from the factory.
Just to be fair, the action seems to be just fine, haven't shot it yet so I'll reserve judgement on it's function.
Carver

Be glad you didn't buy a Crapparal Cry
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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2007, 03:31:25 pm »

I ordered 5 Chapparals at the same time in 45-75 (small group of us HAD to have them).
3 of the 5 had magazine tubes fly off in the 1st 10 rounds shot.
One would not even lever open. It had a hammer spur bent so bad that it hit the receiver tang.
One had a split forend.
One cracked the stock at the tang in less than a week.
The sights were terrible (front crooked and miss-shapen, rears as described by others in this poll).
One had a chamber cut so deeply that the fired case opened up to over 50 caliber at the throat upon firing.]
One had over 25 thousandths head space and would not fire.
I can keep going but you'll think I work for Uberti Grin
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2007, 06:46:30 pm »

Hey Pards ... My MYSTERY FINGER ... locked the Poll.  I have unlocked it so VOTE ON!
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2007, 07:32:32 pm »

Chaparral Winchester '76 Owners:  Here are the email contacts should you have a problem with your rifle ...

Warranty - Charter Firearms Nick Ecker (nickecker@charterfirearms.com)  ... Nick is the owner of Charter Arms.  His wife's name is Dee and she usually answers the telephone.  Chris is the gent at the workbench that does all the Warranty work

Chaparral USA - Charles Brown (sales@chaparralfirearms.com) ... Charles is the President of Chaparral USA

Chaparral Arms Company (Italy):

Nicola Nauti - Chaparral Arms (info@chaparralarms.com)
Angelo Buffoli (info@chaparralarms.com)
(Nicloa and Angleo are the owners of Chaparral Arms) ... Quality Control Issues ... Start and Ends with Persons.  So if you want to let the owners know how well or poorly their QC is ... send them a mail!  I have and they have replied.  Even sent me parts to make some fixes for the 4 rifles us boyzs bought down here in south Jersey
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2007, 08:25:31 pm »

The Saga of W7612XX
Cartridge Lip Missing on Bolt Base
Charter Arms sent me a base bolt that had the cartridge support lip.  ALL originals were made with the lip and if you don't have the lip on yours ... call Charter Arms.  Found out that many rifles are/were missing the lip because some idiot at Italy ground them off!
   
Firing Pin Hole Not Cut Correctly    
During the first 50 rounds through the rifle, noticed that the primer hits were near/on the primer hole.  Toke the bolt out and the piston (original name for the firing pin) ... looked and yep - egg shaped.  Was corrected with the new bolt base from Charter
 
Carrier Block Droops Below Receiver    
Excess Head Space    
These 2 problems - I packed the rifle in the truck and drove to Charter Arms because they were waffling about the fix.  Nick Ecker and I disassembled the rifle after I proved to Nick that I had 0.014 excess head space and the Carrier Block drooped 0.019 below the receiver.  We rummaged through the box of links looking for the longest ones - found 2 that were longer.  With the bolt in battery, still have excess head space but with a 348 resized case in the chamber - head space is ZERO because the shoulder eliminated it.  I consider this a fix.  Also, a new Carrier Block and Carrier Lever were installed

Made a verbal agreement with Nick Ecker while at the plant ... if the head space worsens, the rifle will be replaced or a new barrel put on it

Why is there excess head space to begin with?  Because Italy indexed the barrel incorrectly before it was installed onto the receiver.
 
Magazine Ring Doesn't Fit Flush into Dovetail Cut    
Magazine Plug Lip Doesn't Fit Flush into Barrel Cut    
... which causes the magazine tube to extend past the muzzle of the barrel and is an open issue, presently.  IF, Italy made the magazine plug lip bigger and custom fitted it into the barrel cut slot - 1/2 of the problem would be fixed before it left Italy.
... if the elliptical dove tail was properly cut so the magazine ring fit FLUSH in the cut (I have a 0.014 gap) - the other 1/2 of the problem would have been resolved to preclude an 'extended magazine tube' and only be able to shoot the rifle as a single feed.

Italy came up with a threaded screw and sent me several (for the 4 rifles we have).  Thread is metric, so I threaded a 6/32 screw into the tube ring.  Still didn't hold the tube in place.  Next, I took a 6/32 tap and broke the end off while doing the tap.  The 'teeth' on the tap should have held the tube in place ... NOPE!

So, a new magazine plug is being made on my friend's lathe with a larger lip.  The tube ring is at the welder having a TIG bead applied on the top of each end of the ring.  The ring will be milled so it will be flat against the barrel in the slot cut to eliminate the 0.014 gap.  Then the magazine plug will be custom fitted into the slot cut - after the tube and tube ring are properly set in place.

OK ... why am I going through this mastications instead of getting a replacement rifle?  Here's why ...

... 50yds 
... 100yds
... 200yd target (no X's on patches) and the patches with the X's are 300yd bullet holes shot on a 200yd target, including the one Bulls Eye!  PS: the wind was gusting to 25mph from 11:00

In addition, I shot 500 meter Rams with consistency
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2007, 08:52:49 pm »

John

You aren't the first GUINEA PIG.........you're the five hundredth Cry
How should this make the potential consumer feel?
Someone is doing an Eastern two step here, for sure Grin
Sounds like a lot of excuses and lots of people have heard them.
Whatever happened to QUALITY CONTROL?
Not every one lives near Nick Ecker
Not every one wants to do their R and D
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2007, 09:06:50 pm »

HH ... 100% fact and I sent a scathing e-mail to Nicloa and Angelo basically saying what you posted, plus in no uncertain words:
If Chaparral wants to sell '76's in the US, they better upgrade their Quality Control because it SUCKS!  Every rifle should have a QC paper in the box with an employee and supervisor's name on it

The proof will be ... if production unit serials greater than mine (12xx) have all the communicated problems corrected that have been sent to Italy by a Distributor - Charles Brown - Nick Ecker and my several mails
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2007, 11:21:06 pm »

John Boy

Thanks for the 45-75 Spec sheet you posted on the other thread! Grin

There are a lot of strikes here to correct, but lets not forget:

ASM is involved (that is bad MOJO) they try to hide the fact like a shell game Cheesy
The "assembler" here in the US can NOT possibly be blameless (whether it's that they don't know how to build a rifle or hope that no one cares).

Think about the class action lawsuits that would abound if this was Motorola or Sony!

By the way my "problems" (Chaparral has never admitted there are any) were just like yours only it was regarding 5 rifles. I got the run around by the secretary, and the owner for over 3 months. All the while I was Really (I mean REALLY) nice and patient (as I didn't want to escalate things) and the culmination of my efforts was being cussed out (he called me on my cell).

I will NEVER buy another product that Charter has anything to do with and will NEVER recommend that anyone else does either Angry

Of course this is just my very sensored opinion...........
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2007, 12:33:51 am »

Quote
The "assembler" here in the US can NOT possibly be blameless (whether it's that they don't know how to build a rifle or hope that no one cares).
Quote
I will NEVER buy another product that Charter has anything to do with and will NEVER recommend that anyone else does either
HH - ALL Chaparral firearms are produced and assembled in Italy now.  Previously Charter only assembled the parts that was supplied to them by Italy.  I know for a fact that Charter - Chaparral USA and the main Distributor complained heavily to Italy (Nicola and Angelo) for the shoddy workmanship - to the point they all are on the brink of disgusted with Italy.  IMHO, if Charter was producing Chaparral firearms here in the US or had direct control of QC for parts made in Italy ... they would be selling like hot cakes 

Look at any Chaparral ... if there are Italian proof marks on the firearm - it was produced - assembled in Italy and then sent to the US as a completed firearm ... in the box.  Mine, serial 12xx, has Italian proof marks and that is the reason I complained directly to Nicola and Angelo in Italy

FYI:  Nick Ecker, Charter Arms, is the person who designed the Henry Yellowboy action plus being a top notch designer and gunsmith.  And I have never owned a 22 lever action rifle that has a slicker action - bar none.  And his company sells 125,000+ Charter handguns per year.

My grind is not with Charter - it's solely with Nicola and Angelo.  They are the ones responsible whether or not in house and sub contracted parts are properly made and assembled correctly.  One of their employees even tried to keep the magazine tube from moving on mine by putting liquid solder on the magazine plug!  Unfortunately, with the many emails to them - I can't get a commitment that they will implement a good QC program in place

 
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2007, 01:29:41 am »

All of this anguish is certainly justified, I was very dissappointed with my $1225.00+ investment when it arrived. It sucks to be so excited and then so let down. The problem is there is no one to call and have confidence your paricular problem will be taken care of. Anyone look at the Uberti website?, not much there. The guns are basically dropped off here in the US and that's just about it. Oh sure, Taylor's has a resident gunsmith and so does the Chapp. distributer, probably. and I'm honestly sure they do their best. But what can they do really, it's one guy a million miles away from the factory, the guns are made overseas for crying out loud, by  peoples that don't speak English! I'm almost embarrassed that these great old AMERICAN guns are made in Italy. Italy? Come on now. Great old American guns shouild be made in America, period, Amen
Carver
Post Script: If I had the capital, these guns would be made in the USA, by the best craftspersons, made of the best materials, and sold and supported by the best sales and support team in the country, and that's this country my friends.
I feel better now, thank you
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2007, 09:03:10 am »

Carver

You are right on the money with Uberti. And Taylor's does stand behind the product.

BUT Chaparral went through a period where Charter assembled the rifles here in the US. The bottom line is those rifles were hands on with Charters employees and their work SUCKED! Then they just shipped them anyway. If John Boy is correct in his statements above then I am right when I say we were either GUINEA PIGS or worse!

It's pretty sad that the "tri-wood" Italy assembled guns and the "new" Italian ones now are 10 times better than the Charter guns Cry
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2007, 10:02:30 am »


I got to view Charter Arms display of Chaparral's at Shot Show 07 back in January...
The Charter Arms display was 40'X 60' island but the Chaparral's were displayed on two 4' Tables at the left rear of the island booth almost an after thought.
They did not seen to be to proud of them... the samples were not the best ... the so called enhanced wood on the 73's & 76's was some kind of light color hardwood stained then had painted grain effect and polyurethane finish... poor wood to metal fit...
I gave review on the SASS wire of what I saw , and a wag ( I later discovered was a Chaparral Dealer ) blasted me..
seem his excuse was the guns were "Show models " and as such had been handled and abused ....
That might explain looseness or worn parts ( which these gun did not have ) but it did NOT answer the poor fit & finish... Cheesy wood finish.... and gaps in wood to metal... at a NATIONAL SHOW were EVERYONE else was putting the best wares & foot forward....
The wag also pointed out the wood was being replaced by Walnut ,in future offerings & and early buyers could replace or retro fit the Cheesy enhanced wood (at a cost) if they wished.


They also showed a 73 Colt Clone & a Colt style SXS Hammered Shotgun.... The 73 Colt Clone only fair with the same Cheesy finish Grips.
The SXS however was quite nice , though I suspect it was TTN with Chaparral marks.

I took a bashing over on the SASS wire for stating my observations....




As to Uberti... I have had nothing but good service from mine ...and Ms. Susanne Webb @ Uberti in Gardone' was quite helpful at Customer Service...

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and Currently:
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2006 Henry Steel Frame
2005 Colt OT
2007 Remington Forged Frame Conversion

Numerous : 1860's , Navies , Remingtons , 73 Clones & SW's I've purchased as Film props



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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2007, 10:44:15 am »

Major2

I also was "raped and maimed" by that "WAG" Cheesy
and his "fast" friend.........on the SASS wire.

I also had a telephone conversation with the head honcho at the SASS office and was told they were monitoring all of my posts and would not allow any further comments regarding Crapparal Lips Sealed

They sure allo that "WAG" to continue to use their forum for profit though Angry
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« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2007, 11:00:22 am »

I have no doubt...Seems there are members and then there are MEMBERS
That is precisely why I won't post there anymore... .
 
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« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2007, 12:18:16 pm »

The poll todate has recieved only 8 votes, and seems to be becoming a "dog pile." Sad  I do understand the frustration folks feel, but the place to address those issues is with the manufacture/importer.  There is little to be gained beyond venting.  All manufacturers producing any product will have issues - I know, I have bought a lot of guns, and they were not all as I expected!

I am asking that folks respond by voting, and if you have comments keep them constructive. Smiley 

I believe the feedback to the community, and to manufacturers is important.  However,  in all fairness, those folks are not here to defend themselves.
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